General improvement idea

[WhizzKid]

Firs of all, I would like to greet you and thank for reviving old, good PODBots.

Secondly - sorry, I just didn't want to spam the forum with 20+ threads... I hope you will forgive me

Here are some ideas I would like to see implemented, or resolved in some other way if possible and convenient. Since list contains a few of them, I divided them into categories, sorted by imporance:

General issues:

1. bots shouldn't fire through their mates, they should strafe left or right and then, if no allies on the line, shoot
2. bots should never try to get through doors going backwards, since open/close doors checks not the direction of movement, but the direction of a player
3. bots should care a little more about an attitude they are at - they step too close to the edge and fall down
4. bots should see a little worse in the darkness and turn night vision or flashlight fiven such situation
5. bots should go off from water when air is finishing
6. low-hp bots should hide a little more behind obstacles and high-hp chumps
7. bots shouldn't hide from each other so much when in knife mode/knife arena - its melee weapon, and they should fight a little more
8. bots should escort hostages in group if possible
9. bots should run away from the bomb that is yet to explode
10. bots should protect (CT) and aim (T) the VIP more often
11. bots should be able to use secure assault: a bot or some bots leading the group would ocasionally take some positions to cover the rest, while the group would go further, then switch their roles - the moving would cover those who had just covered them; I know this is a little complicated to implement and would probably require some recoding so I've put it at the last place in the category

Waypoints improvement:

1. new flag: importance - would determine the second0level probability of using the waypoint by bots (or teams). It would be useful on maps where some router are underused, such as de_suntower - bots usually choose the middle route, which is the most dangerous one and they like to get stuck there. Exp files with good bot-managing player can minimize the problem, but it would be better solution imho
2. new flag: a new flag that would deny a bot VIP to walk to certain waypoints; or the very opposite if more convenient
3. new flag: silent waypoints - higher ability that bot will walk on them instead of running (tactical issues; should not be 100% determining, just higher chance, defined in % maybe)
4. new flag/waypoint: swim - would tell the bot he is acutally swimming, and should watch out for air, change movement perception etc.; lots of troubles with swimming atm
5. new flag: long jump - like jump, but determines speed accumulation before jumping
6. new flag: destroy obstacle - on some maps bots have problems with destroying certain obstacles where it is a necessity to move on; rarely, but may be used in several causes

Commands:

1. new command: camp frequency - eg. per round, or x second cooldown
2. new command: botsdontusegrenades - sorry if that already has been done (I can't check this right now), could be sometimes useful (on maps where bots kill themselves with HE grenade)
3. new commands: bot_radio_frequency and bot_chat_frequency - would determine how often bots use their communicative skills

Personality:

1. random obstacle destroying
2. random spraypainting (or after a kill, and no enemies in range

Compatibility with AMXX plugins:

1. invisibility should cause bots to aim less accurately and sometimes disable their ability to notice an invisible bot/player (when hiding in shadows; based on invisibility level)
2. using skills from mods like WC3 XP (like TP to one of visible waypoints, healing when low-hp, using extended ammunition, being able to be immobilized)

I hope at least some of above idead you will find interesting and will implement them soon. Thanks for your time, sorry for such a long addendum ;-)

PS. Translating whole CStrike to other languages takes out its magic. That's why creating voicefiles for PODBots needn't translating into other languages. I support the suggestion of person135 in this thread: http://forums.bots-united.com/showthread.php?t=5734
Still, menus can remain multilingual. But how about Unicode in HL engine? It seems to lack it and most of european languages use some national letters. Anyway, if you would like to have PODBot translated into Polish, I would gladly help

[KWo]

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

General issues:

1. bots shouldn't fire through their mates, they should strafe left or right and then, if no allies on the line, shoot

That's already done. It may happen really rarely if the bot hit his teamnate. But hey - did it never happen to You the situation You've got hurt even by a human player?

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

2. bots should never try to get through doors going backwards, since open/close doors checks not the direction of movement, but the direction of a player

Really? It probably depands on the door type. I have seen walking them back and opening the door without any problem.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

3. bots should care a little more about an attitude they are at - they step too close to the edge and fall down

This is the job for waypointers - to put the waypoints so good the bot will never fall down. They cannot just calculate the dangerzone all the time, because it consume too much power of the CPU.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

4. bots should see a little worse in the darkness and turn night vision or flashlight fiven such situation

They are affected by flashbangs, but the darkness - unfortunatelly doesn't affect them. That also would need to check all the time if they are in the darkness or not to let them aim better or worse. I think it's not worth too implement (I personally don't like to play any dark map,
so I'm not interrested in it at all ).

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

5. bots should go off from water when air is finishing

They are just following the waypoints - don't put waypoints under the water for long distances - that's it.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

6. low-hp bots should hide a little more behind obstacles and high-hp chumps

The HP has already the influence on their personality. If the bot has lower HP it is trying to be more careful (with hiding, camping, finding more safe paths). High HP doesn't influent too much their behaviour.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

7. bots shouldn't hide from each other so much when in knife mode/knife arena - its melee weapon, and they should fight a little more

That's probably right - I have to take a little more look at the "jasonmode"...

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

8. bots should escort hostages in group if possible

Now You started to talk about tactics. There is a lot of things to do with this subject. Let's say - I'm not rejecting it, but that really needs to be good re-thinked...

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

9. bots should run away from the bomb that is yet to explode

I did it already. Only if they can see enemies they are still trying to fight. Otherwise when the bomb is about to explode, they are running away.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

bots should protect (CT) and aim (T) the VIP more often

T aim more often VIPs, but there is probably still something to do with CTs (still tactics)...

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

bots should be able to use secure assault: a bot or some bots leading the group would ocasionally take some positions to cover the rest, while the group would go further, then switch their roles - the moving would cover those who had just covered them; I know this is a little complicated to implement and would probably require some recoding so I've put it at the last place in the category

Yeah - that's more complicated and what is the secure assault? I teached them already how to better use the shiled - isn't it sufficient yet?

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Waypoints improvement:new flag: importance - would determine the second0level probability of using the waypoint by bots (or teams). It would be useful on maps where some router are underused, such as de_suntower - bots usually choose the middle route, which is the most dangerous one and they like to get stuck there. Exp files with good bot-managing player can minimize the problem, but it would be better solution imho

That's is done so - when the bot gets stucked somewhereit increases the experience of "damage" in that place, so later on the path shouldn't be taken so often. If that doesn't work, maybe I have to improve a bit this what is already done.
About the rest of waypoints - I'm not going to change the waypoint format. Adding new flags would require it. Sorry.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Commands:

1. new command: camp frequency - eg. per round, or x second cooldown

I was thinking about it and finally I forgot how I wanted it be done. I have to re-think it again.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

2. new command: botsdontusegrenades - sorry if that already has been done (I can't check this right now), could be sometimes useful (on maps where bots kill themselves with HE grenade)

You can use the cvar pb_restrequipammo (read podbot.cfg) to solve this.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

3. new commands: bot_radio_frequency and bot_chat_frequency - would determine how often bots use their communicative skills

That is already done randomly, but there is no reason to define the probability by new extra settings. There is already too many settings (none of them are usually changed on the servers...)

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Personality:

1. random obstacle destroying
2. random spraypainting (or after a kill, and no enemies in range

That also already happen randonly.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Compatibility with AMXX plugins:

1. invisibility should cause bots to aim less accurately and sometimes disable their ability to notice an invisible bot/player (when hiding in shadows; based on invisibility level)
2. using skills from mods like WC3 XP (like TP to one of visible waypoints, healing when low-hp, using extended ammunition, being able to be immobilized)

I cannot make it compatible with everything around. Please understand it. I cannot test all posiible mods with all possible combination (I don't have time for it).

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Anyway, if you would like to have PODBot translated into Polish, I would gladly help

Do tego akurat nie potrzebuję pomocy...

[WhizzKid]

Hmm, what about checking the darkness while creating an exp file? And about mods - invisibility is quite often used by at least 4 mods, all using the same cvar afair.

About swimming - when fighting, bots don't remember they are out of air...

About doors - as far as I have seen, all classic-type doors recognize(d) it this way, those that move left/right/top do not. But normal door just open in one direction or another... Look at cs_militia.

Shiled is not sufficient, I mean it is good you did that, I pay tribute to you, but lets make PODBot even better

PS. Can't you make waypoints with additional flags make compatible backwards? How are waypoints stored?

EDIT: Bots dont obey waypoints when they are at fight. Then go further from cs_assault's roof and fall too often. And about tactics: an easy way would be covering fire - shooting only to cover and pull other players away. And please reconsider above

[Ancient]

I believe bots use the radi of that waypoint when they are fighting. I see the bots rarely fall from roofs. It should be the same as running on edges or cliffs the radi will prevent them from falling.

Shield seems to be fine to me. Not everyone has to be an expert shield yielder.

The bots don't seem to run when the bomb is about to explode and they see the enemy. I thought this was weird, it isn't human like. I would try to run if the bomb was about to explode even if I see the enemy or not.

Group hostage escort; this would mostlikely be a problem since the bots will have to wait and work together rather than going rouge or following hostages. I know CSBot has this.

A new type of waypoint that Jeefo had stated before, the double stack jump.
A person crouches while a person jumps on top of him to reach high places.
I think that is a good waypoint idea, but that again would change the waypoint format and I would have to use extra waypointing time excluding things from the e[POD]Bot / YaPB version.

The darkness doesn't effect the bots, which I dislike, but that just encourages you to use more of your available resources (flashlight, hearing).

[KWo]

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Hmm, what about checking the darkness while creating an exp file? And about mods - invisibility is quite often used by at least 4 mods, all using the same cvar afair.

Invisibility probably can be easy to check if it sets the flag on the player's entity (I have to check it). But the darkness isn't so easy stuff. Imagine the situation - there is a dark room, but there are some light-switches. Sometimes the same room is dark, sometimes it's bright. So it has to be checked all the time. I can think about that - I'm not rejecting it.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

About swimming - when fighting, bots don't remember they are out of air...

Please give me the link to any good map with water (they have to swim a lot) and the link with pwf for that map to let me take a look at it. I have to see my-self what and why it's happening something.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

About doors - as far as I have seen, all classic-type doors recognize(d) it this way, those that move left/right/top do not. But normal door just open in one direction or another... Look at cs_militia.

OK - I'll take a look once more at that.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

Shiled is not sufficient, I mean it is good you did that, I pay tribute to you, but lets make PODBot even better

Usually the human players even don't use the shield so good like podbot mm is using it now. And it's even banned to use on some servers (didn't You know that? some like for example awp).

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

PS. Can't you make waypoints with additional flags make compatible backwards? How are waypoints stored?

Believe me - the navigation part of podbot mm is one of the most consuming CPU power part of code. This what You want is really unique. Probably noone except You would use it in the future, so it's not worth for me to focus on it at all. And how long time the people will still play CS? 2-3 years? I don't really feel to add extra stuff which will not be so much useful for the majority of users...

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

EDIT: Bots dont obey waypoints when they are at fight. Then go further from cs_assault's roof and fall too often.

They don't follow waypoints while fighting. They are doing checks if they may fall down while moving in combat mode, but maybe it fails sometimes.

Originally Posted by WhizzKid

And about tactics: an easy way would be covering fire - shooting only to cover and pull other players away. And please reconsider above

That would need to change the fireing/aiming system completly. They are fireing now at exact enemy position (or at least at exact position where they really expect the enemy behind the obstacle). This what You want is they should just fire to the air, for no apparent reason (I mean for no reason right now).

[WhizzKid]

Originally Posted by KWo

Invisibility probably can be easy to check if it sets the flag on the player's entity (I have to check it). But the darkness isn't so easy stuff. Imagine the situation - there is a dark room, but there are some light-switches. Sometimes the same room is dark, sometimes it's bright. So it has to be checked all the time. I can think about that - I'm not rejecting it.

So do one-time check. Well, it would not hurt to see bot with a flashlight in a bright room after switching lights on.

Invis, immobility, other stuff from mods - maybe try to capture what the engine is trying to do to the player just like CZ native bots do?

And about auto-creating waypoints for non-waypointed maps - I think I could make a basic mind-map of an algorithm that would allow you to create such thing. At least, I suppose that any difficulties with autowaypointing maps would be connected to detecting edges of the map and things like ladders, walls etc. I you can capture such info, I am pretty sure we could do it