How are my waypoints? ...And map, for that matter.

[biohazerd87]

yes, also there where some overlapping connections. But that is normal when you are learning. Infact that was my biggest problem when I started. I didn't include screen shots cause I am lazy, among other things. Like BKA said it is really hard to tell from the size of the map to tell how good you are overall. I don't know if I saw any camp points, which is completely up to the waypointer. Other than that your waypoints look nice, as well as the map

[The Goomba Mattress]

Were there really overlapping connections? Sheesh, I thought I had gotten rid of all of those. :-/ I'll have to fix 'em.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

That's pretty normal in the beginning. It takes some time to get a hang of those apmd settings - how far so and so much distance units are and when & where to use which setting.

[The Goomba Mattress]

So, I've given up on de_rotterdam2. :-/ I made a huge mistake by deciding to edit the waypoints I already had for it; they really were that bad. However, I did go ahead and waypoint cs_mario_b2, one of robbo4's requests. Instead of making a whole new thread, I figured I'd just post 'em here.

So, ladies and gentlemen, here they are. My first waypoints for a "real" (as "real" as a map based off a Super Mario game can get, anyway) map!

Let me know how I did.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Just downloaded 'em. Now I'm gonna look for that map, and by tomorrow I'll let you know what I think of it.

[biohazerd87]

me too. I am still at school but as soon as i get home from school i will download them and check them out!

[The Goomba Mattress]

Just as a heads-up, I'm currently working on waypointing cs_wildwest, another one of robbob4's requests. I must say, it's a pretty spiffy map.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Wasn't that the one by X-tender? Where all the textures looked so dusty?

I'm gonna post you some feedback later today, just a short "teaser" for now:
1) The way they are now, I wouldn't take your cs_mario_b2 waypoints into my waypoint folder - yet.
2) However, they show VERY MUCH potential and don't lack in elemental things. It's just some details and much stuff that can't be expected from someone who doesn't have much experience so far. (The map wasn't exactly easy, btw. But a great example.) I'll show you what I mean in full detail a bit later.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Double post to set new time stamp.

TGM, I just whipped up some pictures that show some problems & suggestions.

A few words before you look at them: It's always a bit odd to criticise things others sacrificed their free time for. You only mention negative aspects, until it sounds as if it all were just a piece of crap. In order to avoid this, I'd like to stress some positive things before.
- You are not lazy. It may sound cheesy, but many guys restrict their work to run around the map once in auto-waypointing mode and leave out everything which is not absolutely necessary. You are not too lazy to waypoint the entire map, even if it's a big one.
- You use important WPs quite nicely. There's still room for improvement, but I like how you made the Ts go into those corner rooms from where you can see the CT and step onto the ledge leading around the roof.
- For someone who hasn't waypointed many maps so far, you make rather clean & tidy waypoints. I didn't see a single overlapping connection this time, and just a few too big radii and badly placed connections.
- You have the will to enable bots to take advantage of particular map features. It shows at the spot where the T bots can jump into the water.

All this is a very promising start. Some more practice and some feedback, and you're set.

Now some general suggestions:
- When placing nohostage flags, don't just automatically add one to each ladder etc. A nice approach is to add nohostage flags only to camp WPs immediately. (you forgot one, btw. Near the rescue zone, on top of a tree) Then, wehn you have finished waypointing everything, enter the game as CT and activate the hostages. Lead them around, see where you can go. Sometimes there's a staircase where hossies get stuck. Sometimes, the hossies can easily follow you when you jump over a railing, sometimes they can't. Try it out, and wherever you encounter problems, add flags. And if there's a corridor that leads to a ladder that leads to another room with more ladders etc., just block that corridor with one flagged waypoint, and you don't need to worry about the rest.
- Especially when you have tricky jumps or narrow ledges waypointed, add a bot after finishing the waypoints and command it around with pb debuggoal nnn commands. Make it go along all the difficult passages to see if there are problems - and where.
- Test the stuff, and if you find that bots die often, try to find where they die, and improve your waypoints there. (There's some info on this in the attached screenshots.)

Bleh, I've had enough of writing now. I'd say you're off to a good start - keep it up!

[The Goomba Mattress]

First of all, WOW! 8D

I really appreciate you going through them so thoroughly. I went ahead a fixed the problems you mentioned, and a few more while I was at it. Besides what you mentioned, a few waypoints were only using one-way connections when they should have been bidirectional, while a few others just had plain bad connections. I also fixed a few problems with some radii, among other things. So you don't have to go through it all over again, I've attached a large, rather artistic collage of screenshots of a few of the things I fixed, along with the new waypoint file.

Oh, and everything you suggested works beautifully. As though that's any surprise. 9_9