Habemus Papam!

[KWo]

Originally Posted by Lethal

The pope has also caused alot of deaths in Africa. I mean honestly would you give up your right to have sex and using contraception to prevent a unwanted child because some stupid book, which written 500 odd years after the actual supposed son of god came to this world?

Well - I don't think death of a lot of people in Afrika has been caused by him. The people in Africa don't have the access to any contraception. Even if they would be ble to access it, they wouldn't listen any pope about something like this - "don't use it - it's wrong". I guess You are trying to attack my countryman without any reason. But not everybody have to love him. Everyone who contacted him during his pilgrimages and who has been listening to him, he experienced the big feel of something good. The people loved him not because of his conservative ideas (common to all older people - so what's abnormal here ), but because they experienced something good. The people were following him to have the possibility be near someone really good. He got respect also from other religions leaders (also not without any reason). Do You know why he didn't get the Peace Nobel's Prize? Only because to prevent the stupid discussions like - someone showed a catholic leader as "the best religion" representative. I mean someone could get it this way. So that situation could've start a new hating discussion (why exactly this religion etc...).

The Bible is not only the collection of something like this "don't do it - it's wrong". Since noone is able to make true all these conditions included there - God sent us His Son to teach us something different (different way to go to Heaven). Above of all of prohibitions and prescriptions it's the lesson how to love the people - love Your brother like Your-self. It was the most important part of Bible which JP2 has been trying to teach the people during his pontyficat.
Try to focus on this if that part from Bible about "don't do it - it's wrong" is too difficult for You.

[Lethal]

I am a believer in science over religion since science has proved to be the progressful in terms of expanding, it also shows we still have a lot to learn about in our own world never mind heaven and hell, I rather know about things in life rather than be told what to do to get to a mystical fantasy.

Apparently there is going to be some major event and war coming which has been prophetised. So in other words: how do you make a statement like that?
How can anyone say something so grim.

Besides that I rather read the Quran, the Tora and all the other religious material than just read the bible, it seems more interesting but I still don't need a book to tell me how to live, if I wanted to be nice to people I would when everyone else learns that greed is a terrible thing.

Of course I am still opened minded.

[TruB]

the war has already begun.. almost every sunday i go to war with my clan..

an input.. sweden is black listed.. one of the first to sell condoms (spell check) openly....

[Denny]

Originally Posted by Cpl. Shrike

I tried to believe it all.
But it's all to contradictionary. I don't believe a word from the bible.

I agree, i mean the bible is man's interpretation of god (and all the other stuff related to him), god himself did not write it, i mean how are we suppose to know if any of that is even accurate? i mean just because they say it does does not make it so.

[Exilibur]

...


this looks like an explosive topic. Now we need some moderator to calm things down...

Personally i don't really agree or dissagree since I'm all abandoned. I tend to agree with people stating their doubts about ethical rights and moral issues, but since none of them has appeared, I'm indifferent.

I hope this discussion will end without too deep dissagreements,

but anyway... keep on goint strong about ethical stuff... it's nice.

[Denny]

Well there's bound to be disagreement, i'm cool though no problems here.

[Nova]

As long as i stay civilised, i dont see any reason to stop it. This is an interesting discussion.

[KWo]

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty

Why do you think he travelled so much ?

He has been trying to follow Jesus Christ - "go to the people - teach them, tell them Gospel Truth and be near them".

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty

I disagree to say that he's been responsible of the fall of the USSR-style communism. The only place where he had some impact was Poland, his own homeland.

You have to know in Poland - now - the poeple found a lot of documents and delations collected by people from Security Services (as slaves for the old system governement). Why? These people has been afraid a lot of him.They knew he could call the people to get things in their hands - and he did it so, but different way they though.
After one audience with pope some USSR leader (I don't remember his name now - I guess it was Iurij Andropov) came out from audience very red and purple on his face. And the people sticked around there have seen the afraid in his eyes. He understood - it's impossible to keep alive the communistic system in USSR forever and it's impossible to stop their own (Russian) people by weapons (it would mean a lot of blood andthe people finally could reach their target without care about their live (since to be slaves has been for them worse than die) . The changement was inevitable and pope convict him and made him ready for this. He was disagree, but he understood - can't stop the process.

Since pope it's like a leader for 1 billion people (it's about such number of catholic on Earth) - big leaders from all big countries has to have the respect for him anyway. Even if they disagree with his opinions. It means some influance at world.

But why exactly I'm trying to teach You guys, if You whole don't need this? Everyone wanting take more info about East Europe story and the infuance at it by pope JP2 - he can go to any bookshop and I guess even in West Europe it's possible now to buy few books about it.

[stefanhendriks]

Actually here comes the question, where does religion take over for politics. If we all tend to follow religion, we end up in a war for sure.

What i find so odd, is that people cannot understand that this pope WAS powerfull in ancient HISTORY. The pope can't set yo ufree when you're in jail, the pope cant arrest you if you commit a crime. The pope has only influence through the religion, which is interpreted by each individual itself.

I'd say, if you're one of those 1 billion people following him each word he says, you're like sheep! Why do people critizise their own president/party but not the pope? If thats all true, and the entire world would listen to this pope, he would have true world-power, enough to stop any WW going on. This did never happened though.

Well - I don't think death of a lot of people in Afrika has been caused by him. The people in Africa don't have the access to any contraception. Even if they would be ble to access it, they wouldn't listen any pope about something like this - "don't use it - it's wrong".

It is caused by him, because he does not say "Use it for your safety". The religion itself says you should not 'stop' any way of getting children. I bet, when the pope says that people should use contraception, somehow all the needs will get there asap!

[KWo]

Originally Posted by stefanhendriks

The religion itself says you should not 'stop' any way of getting children.

It's not true - the religion "itself" says You may use "natural planning" with getting children. It means something like "natural contraception".

I never told I agree 100% with all our pope's ideas and with all he said/wrote. I was trying to show You how big influence (indirect) he had on the world.
Africa is another topic (maybe someone want to open it) - there are 2 problems - AIDS and poor. I wrote 3 phrases about it here, but I've just deleted them to stop inreasing the temperature here. We can talk about it at priva rather. Or here - if You will stop shout at me...