Route System

[Tiger]

I just had one question. I created the route system for a map and it doesn’t work. I tested the same route system on a blank version of the map to see what was wrong and it worked fine, but when I use the same route system on the completed map the bots ignore the route system altogether. I checked that I have path actions completed, as well as the action number, team, and radius. I set the appropriate action numbers linked to the route node but it just won’t work. Any takers?

[the bindlestiff]

Tiger,

I had a real difficult time getting the route system to work for me when I began waypointing. It can get tricky. I assume that you've studied the tutorial I wrote for the Wiki and that you've searched the forum for postings of mine relating to the subject (sometime back in Jan of 2006).

Do I remember correctly that you're waypointing RtCW maps (not ET)? If so, be aware that the ONLY actions that you can use as targets for routes are dynamite, steal, and deliver actions.

Please provide more details about exactly what doesn't work, etc. What type of actions are you're routing to? Have you tested a particular route with just one bot, setting up the path actions so that the bot is forced to use just that single route? Are the conditions established that make the route actions active? That is, is it a valid dynamite action for an engineer bot, or is it a steal action that is ACTIVE?

The usual problems about bots ignoring routes are: 1) the route actions are not active, 2) the path is broken somewhere, 3) the action doesn't apply to the bots being tested, 4) the path actions are incorrectly placed, and a dozen others that I can't remember ATM!


More info required for a more detailed diagosis. . . .

[Tiger]

Can I just submit to you the actual file? It's small and there's only one route. You can see it and let me know what's wrong. The truth and the matter is that I checked everything and everything seems to be in place. This happens on other maps as well. However, when I strip the maps down the routes work. It's only when there is a fully completed map that it seems to ignore the route system. Could I e-mail you the file? I can't figure this thing out. I'd like to wrap up these maps as well, they're pretty much completed.

[the bindlestiff]

OK, I'll see what I can find out. Zip the .nav and .aiscript files for the map that isn't working and attach it to a posting. And, what map is it????

[Tiger]

Here is the AI Script file.

[Tiger]

And here is the nav file. I appreciate you looking into this, as well as anyone else who can. I don't understand why the route system does not work. It doesn't work on other maps, either, even though I go through the check list of how to set the route systems, etc.

[the bindlestiff]

Tiger:

I spotted a few things right away:

1. The target for your route is a CAMP. In RtCW, the only actions that can be routed to are dynamite, steal, and deliver actions (as I reminded you in my previous posting).

2. The team for your route is ALLIED, but the target is AXIS. This won't work, either.

3. The route is not placed in an optimum area for the bots to recognize it. Routes must be located in areas where the bots are selecting new goals for themselves, usually at SPAWN POINTS or at a STEAL location.

Remember, if you route to a dynamite action, only engineer bots will follow the route since a dynamite action only applies to engineers. OTH, if you route to a steal action, all the bots will follow it. And if you place a route at the steal point leading to a deliver point, only the bot who takes the item will observe the route.


Another point to be aware of: I assume that your working nav and aiscript files are located in the appropriate folders under the /fritzbot folder. You are re-doing an existing set of waypoints and those waypoints are stored in Fritz2.pk3 along with all the other map waypoints. BE AWARE that files encased in a pk3 supersede files in the external folders. IF you leave the Fritz2.pk3 in the /fritzbot folder while you're working on your new waypoints, every time you do a map_restart, it'll bring up the pk3 waypoints, NOT those you want to work on!

The reason I think that this may be the case is because you haven't mentioned the big gate that can only be opened by a wall lever. Bots cannot operate levers, so the gate was removed in a modification to the map script. If the gate hasn't appeared during your waypointing, then it's clear that the modified script (also located in the pk3 along with the nav and aiscript files) is in effect.

When you temporarily remove Fritz2.pk3 from the /fritzbot folder, you'll need to open it up, locate mp_base.script in the /Maps folder and copy it to the external /fritzbot/Maps folder in order to have the gate removed. I hope that this is clear.

I hope this solves your problem!

[Tiger]

Hey,

Thanks for all the help. The problem was with the placement of the route node. Once I placed it into the starting location everything worked fine. As for the target team and the action number, they were actually correct but the file I submitted on here was an older file where they had not been changed yet. Now, I was working on one other map to make sure I did finally get this route system correct, but after following all of the same steps as for the first map, it still wasn't working. I'm going to submit it here just like I submitted the first map. If you get a chance, could you just take a look at this one like you did for the first map? Again, I really appreciate your help. Thanks in advance.

[Tiger]

Here is the AI Script file. I should note, I am not finished with this file, so it is not conclusive. Again, thanks for anything you can come up with regarding why the route system doesn't seem to be working for this map.

[the bindlestiff]

Tiger,

Several problems are apparent:
1. A route radius of 20000 is MUCH too large. You want to just barely cover the spawn areas and not much more. IF the route radius is too big, it'll interfere with the bot movement elsewhere such as when they reach an alt roam. You don't want the alt roams to be within the radius of the route! It looks to me like a radius of 550 is about right and covers the spawn area nicely. You can verify visually by setting the node editor to display radii and then going to the extreme limit of the spawn area and looking for the radius lines. Sometimes you'll have to go into /noclip mode and look inside the walls to see them at their ends. You can also mathematically calculate the diameter by going to two opposite ends of the spawn area, finding your coordinates in the map at each one (/viewpos in the console gives you x,y,z coordinates). Using simple geometry (square root of [(x1-x2) squared + (y1-y2)squared + (z1-z2)squared]. Then the radius is one-half of the result.

2. Your path node radii are too large in most cases. You don't want their radii touching walls, doors, etc because the bots will, in making turns, sometimes swing wide and get stuck on doorways, bounce around trying to avoid obstructions, etc. You also should pay attention that node radii don't overlap each other too much. That can confuse the bot navigation because they may not be able to tell where they are.

3. Your bots will never be able to climb the tall ladder because your path approach is from the side. I guarantee you that they'll almost always get stuck on the side of the ladder. You need to path the bots so they they approach a ladder straight on or as nearly as straight on as you can manage in a given situation. Have a look at other waypointed maps with lots of ladders (my map of mp_island is a prime example -- whew, that was map was a trial!).

In order to properly test a route, you MUST first disable ALL other competing actions. In your case, your route points to a dynamite action. There are six other dynamite actions in the map. If you don't disable them, your engineer will make a random choice of all the dynamite actions open to him and will take your route just one time out of seven, on average. Furthermore, you must modify the route's pathactions so that only one is active (as you have done) so you can verify that the bot will go directly to that alt roam and no other. I do this by kicking all the bots and then just /addbot one engineer. Then I follow him around to his destination.

4. It turns out in your case that you have the alt roam on the shortest path to the dynamite plant, so the bot will go that way regardless of there being a route or not. To verify that the route setup is working, I moved the alt roam to a location that was NOT on the shortest way to the dynamite action. I stuck it in the tunnel where the delivery action is located. What I do before I set up a route is to send my bots to their destinations, one action at a time, to find out what the shortest routes are. If they're satisfactory then there's no need for a route.

IN SUMMARY: the route radius was too big and there are other dynamite actions competing for the engineer's attention. If tested correctly, THE ROUTE WORKS!