Bots get stuck at top of ladder

[KWo]

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

Ok, the ladder problems can be solved by rewaypointing. BUT I don't feel the slightest motivation to fix up all waypoint files AGAIN! Besides, what do you want to do in places where both the ladder and the ceiling aren't high enough for this workaround? Nah, there's something in the code that has changed, and it must be changed back.

I said about this workaround before - when You all try once again read my posts in this thread (regardless of my bad English) I said - "I can place the top ladder WP a little bit higher ...", but sometimes the ladder is too low and You have to use next workaround - noclip mode and You have to put the top ladder WP under (I should say "over" - sorry it's my mistake) ladder...I know all of this - my question is - if we really have to-rewaypoint all maps with ladders?
About this change back in the code - I suppose, this currently bot's behavior on ladders is corresponding to the modification with AIM code on the ladder. Before this modification bots were looking up during climbing and probably a side effect was catapulting bot to the normal WP at the floor of the top of ladder. After fixing this (now bots don't look up but they can fight) - this side effect not exist, but now many pwf files with ladders doesn't work. Need ask PMB about some suggestion/solution for sPlOrYgOn. So - this code can't be changed back but need new solution. Or maybe I'm wrong...9_9

[biohazerd87]

ok i am confused did you want help on de_train. From what is sounds like you are saying everymap you have the ladder waypoints don't work? I have never had that happen.

[sPlOrYgOn]

probably what he meant was he was too lazy/unmotivated to go through all the waypoints he made and see if it has this problem then fix it if it does.

[KWo]

Originally Posted by sPlOrYgOn

probably what he meant was he was too lazy/unmotivated to go through all the waypoints he made and see if it has this problem then fix it if it does.

Maybe You are right - I'm too lazy. The problem is not only waypoints I made, but waypoints we have . Try to calculate all time we need to check all maps if bots get stuck on ladder or not and after correct. For You probably this is only 2 hours work with changing something in the code (maybe this time is too big for so good coder like You - don't be offended).
For camp wp we know - need go to camp wp, delete all and place the new one. BTW - maybe You can add some function "go to the next wp camp" for too lazy waypointers?
Please, speak with SoUlFaThEr about this ladders problem. If for him it's not problem check and correct all his 10000 pwf - no problem, I will wait. Maybe You can speak with PMB, too - what is he thinking about this problem.

[sPlOrYgOn]

problem is I'm not as good a coder as PMB..
I'm not that good at all..
if I knew how to fix this through code I probably would've done it already

[biohazerd87]

Originally Posted by KWo

Maybe You are right - I'm too lazy. The problem is not only waypoints I made, but waypoints we have . Try to calculate all time we need to check all maps if bots get stuck on ladder or not and after correct. For You probably this is only 2 hours work with changing something in the code (maybe this time is too big for so good coder like You - don't be offended).
For camp wp we know - need go to camp wp, delete all and place the new one. BTW - maybe You can add some function "go to the next wp camp" for too lazy waypointers?
Please, speak with SoUlFaThEr about this ladders problem. If for him it's not problem check and correct all his 10000 pwf - no problem, I will wait. Maybe You can speak with PMB, too - what is he thinking about this problem.

First off it's not like everymap will have this problem. And what are you so worried about it for? Your not selling bots or waypoints so I'm sure your Corprate stocks aren't going to drop lol. It's not like we have to got to everymap ever waypointed and fix this. If there is a problem in the map let a user tell us then we can fix it. There is no need to check all the waypoints

[[NvT]_KaszpiR_]

first i just glanced over the answers ans skipped big images ?(thye're too big )

i think problem is not with waypoints but with the code
i got the waypoints well performed (by soulfather) but i have noticed the bots have problem with climbing the ladders

let me describe it to you
1. bot has desire to climb, he cleses to the enarest waypoint to the lagger (not waypoint ladder)
2. then bot goes to the waypoint ladder and tries to climb
3 when he tries to then it goes slightly backwardy and up, but that means he is off the ladder, even if he was on it, so he is looped in the action of :
come over the ladder waypoint,
look up
move a but up
move a bit back
lost the connection with ladder around the heingt of jump
he lands on the floor
he tries to get to the ladder (again and again...)

4. sometimes it manages to climb anyway
but i noticed that if bot cannot move to the back he can easly climb - in example if you are going just after the bt and he just starts to climb and you block it it then cannot move back and then climbs up as it should

i guess maybe changing the radius reqired to reach the ladder waypoint should be decreased ?
cause rewaypointing of all waypointed allready maps will not be a nice task

notice the bots does not have problem with going down on ladder, its the goimg up the biggest problem for them


another thing about waypoints,
would be nice to add the builtin function that would read old waypoints, rewrote the camp wp with exackly the same values but with added new features required for bot to camp, then save it to old file

[KWo]

Originally Posted by biohazerd87

First off it's not like everymap will have this problem. And what are you so worried about it for?

I didn't say we need re-waypoint all. I said only - we need check all if there is this problem or not. If we will wait only for feedback from users - they can say only - "No - this bot has problem with climbig on ladders. No, no - we have to use another bot". I don't want this.

Originally Posted by biohazerd87

Your not selling bots or waypoints so I'm sure your Corprate stocks aren't going to drop lol.

Maybe I don't understand 100% of this, but I can hear some sounds rude here...I will not comment this...
Maybe You are right - maybe I'm worried too much...9_9

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

All I can say is that in order to make this bot popular, it must RUN. It must WORK. If there's a little bug, ok. If bots don't throw grenades, perfectly, ok.
But ppl will only use a bot that supports their favourite maps, and there were zillions of PODBot waypoints for 2.5 on the net. That's what helped to make PB 2.5 so popular.
PB 2.6mm is not only a sandbox ecperiment for us few guys at BU, or at least that's my point of view. Many people I know would love to use this bot, but so far, critical (crash-causing) bugs have kept them from doing so. Now that most of these bugs are fixed, you suddenly have the problem that even on standard maps shipped with the bot, waypoints don't work anymore. This is much worse than using old 2.5 camp points, because with old camp points, all that happens is that bots will look into weird directions. But this ladder problem is making serious gameplay impossible. And if users see bots get stuck on ladders with most waypoints, they WILL think that it's the bot. I agree with KWo in this respect. Remember, not everybody out there knows anything about bots - most just want to USE them, PLAY with them. They won't care about lengthy explanations concerning changed ladder code etc.
And they won't put up with having to request new waypoints for many maps.
If I d/l'ed PB 2.6mm and saw that bots get stuck on most ladders, I woudn't search for a forum until I finally find the explanation given here, then learn about waypointing only to fix those ladders. I wouldn't like to request WPs for each and every map I like and then have to wait and hope for the mercy of some waypointer, either. I'd want to be able to enter "PB 2.6mm waypoint download" in Google and find a site where I get WPs, and WORKING WPs.
Besides, KWo is totally right: There are places where workarounds are likely to fail (take the vents leading up to the ground level bomb spot in de_nuke).

I think the best solution to this would be code-wise, not waypoint-wise. Even sPlOrYgOn as our official coder said he would fix this in the code - if he knew how. Ok, so let's try our best to help.
Could this problem be caused by the fact that the bots are no longer "locked" to a certain direction when climbing ladders? AFAIR, this used to be the case with older PB versions. The downside was that bots couldn't fight each other while climbing ladders because they were prohibited from aiming at their enemy due to this lock.
Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to re-introduce the lock BUT in a way that it gets deactivated as soon as an enemy is in sight? And reactivate it as soon as the enemy has vanished (fled or died)? Or is this too complicated?
And does anybody remember when this ladder code was changed? If we manage to find a dll that was programmed AFTER the code change but works, the sloution might be much easier to find. I'm gonna look and see if I find something...
-------------EDIT------------
Gotcha! Found a dll from April, 5, 2004; tested and... it works! If my memory doesn't fail me biiiig time, this was after the "ladder lock" was deactivated. And it still worked! Now all it takes is a comparison of the ladder code and maybe general bot navigation in these two dll's to sort out the differences and see which change caused the problem. I hope.

[biohazerd87]

Originally Posted by KWo

I didn't say we need re-waypoint all. I said only - we need check all if there is this problem or not. If we will wait only for feedback from users - they can say only - "No - this bot has problem with climbig on ladders. No, no - we have to use another bot". I don't want this.


Maybe I don't understand 100% of this, but I can hear some sounds rude here...I will not comment this...
Maybe You are right - maybe I'm worried too much...9_9

Whoa! Really, I am not trying to be rude I am kinda being sarcastic. If i can off as rude and i usually am I am sorry