POD-bot back into shape.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Hmmm... sounds phat! Your installers make map installation really a no-brainer, and they spare users the trouble of finding out how the heck a ZIP archive is structured and into which folder to unzip it. This way, nobody would end up unpacking cs_drivemecrazy.zip and get the following result:
...\counter-strike\cstrike\cs_drivemecrazy\cstrike\maps\cs_dri vemecrazy.bsp
Other examples of How to Make Installing Maps a PITA are zips that contain mistyped folder names, resulting in sounds\ambience, sound\ambience, sounds\ambiance and so forth.

However, those modded maps may not be everyone's glass of beer. For your server, it makes sense. But at least those maps that are well playable with bots should be included as a regular version as well - of course bundled with hq waypoints as well. Take a map like cs_militia2k1 (militia clone, obviously) - some ppl who don't play against so many bots will prefer having those rotating doors in the map simply because they look way more authentic than sliding doors and add atmosphere - however, they WILL appreciate a "walk in the park" installer and a decent WP set right with the map; no need to fiddle around or download any file - be it a forgotten .wad, .spr or a waypoint.
So I'd suggest offering, for example, cs_militia2k1 (IF we include it) in two versions, one fully modded for hardcore bot fans and one original.
Hardcore bot fans could download a really exclusive map, whereas others could d/l the standard map with an easy installer and good waypoints and still play this map on other people's servers without getting error messages.

[SoUlFaThEr]

WAIT A MINUTE...slow down...im with you 2 on all that but: think a moment....

Mark.......hacked maps are your servers SPECIAL gag.....keep it that way........dont release stuff like that to other people.

any mappack should NOT be included with the bot itself.....rather.....as an extra download on the same site.......

the mappack is a great idea......and with Austins installer even better and with yours and my waypoints even better.

now......afaik......most bot players are 56k peeps or just cheater-haters like me. getting together, say...20 of the best maps, would be such a huge download man, cuz the best looking maps are full of custom shit and are usually between 5 and 10 MB each. take the average 6.5MB map file and multiply that by 20.
130 MB......i dont think PMB will even download such a file on purpose, even if it was a good thing, with his fabulous 56k connection. a 56k guy will complain about a 1MB download.

next problem is which maps.....and this is actually a discussion that deserves its own thread rather than spamming up this podbot fix thread......hehe ...35 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terran]

My little wishlist for podbot2.6mm:

• move the intire folder structure into the addons folder. This would help people setting up the bot as any other metamod plugin. IMHO all bots that support metamod should do this.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

@huntercc: bug located and fixed.

@T Wrecks: you specify an angle just like before, but this time both the horizontal and vertical angles are taken in account. This way if your camp waypoint is down a slope you can make the bot watch out for the top of the slope (or any other height you want).

@Terran: I hear you. It's done.

@all the waypointers: about this door issue again, guys... when you waypoint through a door, do you set the waypoint radius to zero ?

There will be another release once I have a sufficient feedback on this one. BTW whenever someone else who is serious enough wants to take over the project and continue to make it grow better and better, I will gladly refurbish it away to him since I've already my own bot to grow.

[Ammar]

One little sugesstion might be to make the bots switch to knife and then back to the weapon when needed, this is usefull on some maps such as aztec. I heard that you are not going to alter the bot in any way, just fix the bigs, but does this affect how the bot reacts, i dont think so, Its just a little suggestion u might want to consider. Btw great job!

[SoUlFaThEr]

i make all waypoints 0 radius if a bot must navigate through a doorway.......on both sides of course.....and also make sure he must go exactly STRAIGHT through it.....no wierd angles.....

but the thing is.......on Austins server.....theres 28 bots on ONE team against maximum 4 humans........so the croud at a doorway near a spawn is just gonna be hell no matter if its 0 radius or not this si why he makes those rotating door to sliding doors...

ok BOT feedback:

i have been watching bots at these new camp spots of mine.......only sometimes do they actually look where was pointed......and they actually look up or downwards if it was set like this so it does work.......

another thing i notice as a bot navigates around.....he may be seriously paying attention to a specific waypoint.......walk past it......and turn around to still be looking at it.....this is surely the danger code......but it looks funny when a bot runs backwards into the open area of cs_assault inside the building on the bottom!

they are still doing strange things at ladders.....and now when a bot reaches the top of a ladder......he is sort of jumping up and off to the left......and while in the air.....swinging back around to land on the top normal waypoint........this looks sort of funny and opften causes the bot to fall off......again im seeing this in cs_assault......

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

@ SoUlFaThEr:

1. I second your opinion about those hacked maps. However, I thought it might be nice to offer some maps that have had bot-incompatible things removed. Not to make them playable with 28 bots, only to make them bot-compatible at all.

2. I didn't want to include the maps in the bot itself, no way! There should be a) the bot + official WPs, b) some custom WPs (as a pack or individual) and

3. I thought of the maps not as a pack, but as a list of individual downloads. A pack is a bad idea, because if you have 50 maps in it, not a single user will like all 50 of them. Never ever! This means that ppl waste d/l bandwidth, and we don't want that. But if we had a list of tested and approved maps, we could even spare all bot friends downloads of maps that look good, but suck with bots.

@ Austin: How much more space do map archives occupy when distributed with the installer, I mean compared to a high-compression ZIP or RAR?

@ PMB: What SF said, door WPs w/ a radius of 0, if it's an actual door. If it's just an open doorway, still 0. If it's wide, 16. And if it's very wide, maybe 32. And no odd angles - btw, I didn't notice any particular problems, at least nothing new...

Thx about the camp WP info, lads! And yes, we should open a new thread about those maps - too many discussions are mixed in this monster-thread already. No need to add even another one...

[Austin]

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

Hmmm... sounds phat! Your installers make map installation really a no-brainer, and they spare users the trouble of finding out how the heck a ZIP archive is structured and into which folder to unzip it.

Yes, they are the perfect thing for installing maps. Even after I wrote this detailed doc on how to install maps,
Http://austinbots.com/doc/HowToInstallCSMaps.doc

some regular players were still totally lost on how to install maps! Those of us who do a lot with computers forget there are people who can barely turn on their computer install a game and get connected. Anything beyond this is a dark void for them. I am not criticizing them, there are a lot of areas where I have little if any expertise or information. I just have to remind my self the "average" end user can sometimes be pretty new to computers and can't do some things that seem extremely "simple" to us.

I haven't found anyone yet who couldn't' figure out how to get these maps installed using this installer, so the main problem of getting user to have custom maps is solved.

The program that creates these installers checks the bsp file to make sure ALL the necessary external custom files are present and it doesn't even make the installer if any file is missing.

BKA I use the Wise installer in zip mode so the installer will be compressed to the same size as a zip. The wise installer has a very low overhead for the exe something like 32K.

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

should be included as a regular version as well - of course bundled with hq waypoints as well. Take a map like cs_militia2k1 (militia clone, obviously) - some ppl who don't play against so many bots will prefer having those rotating doors in the map simply because they look way more authentic than sliding doors and add atmosphere -

I agree. I already post the unmodified map as an exe installer.

I make another one that has the extra spawn points and the pwf.

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

Mark.......hacked maps are your servers SPECIAL gag.....keep it that way........dont release stuff like that to other people.

any mappack should NOT be included with the bot itself.....rather.....as an extra download on the same site.......

the mappack is a great idea......and with Austins installer even better and with yours and my waypoints even better.

now......afaik......most bot players are 56k peeps or just cheater-haters like me. getting together, say...20 of the best maps, would be such a huge download man, cuz the best looking maps are full of custom shit and are usually between 5 and 10 MB each. take the average 6.5MB map file and multiply that by 20.
130 MB......i dont think PMB will even download such a file on purpose, even if it was a good thing, with his fabulous 56k connection. a 56k guy will complain about a 1MB download.

next problem is which maps.....and this is actually a discussion that deserves its own thread rather than spamming up this podbot fix thread......hehe ...35 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) SF I don't advertise these hacked maps. I only give them out If someone asks me for them. I am not the only person looking for 32 player maps. It is a common request.

2) Agreed! The bot installer should just be the bot and waypoints for only the standard maps.

3) I don't like map packs. Each map will have it's own installer and "possibly' a pwf.

4) I have started a list and I think we should post a sticky thread in the mapping section to continue this.

I have been testing something that seems to be working really well on my server.
Once again this may be something that is only done there but here is the deal.

I have been experimenting with putting in like 40-50 spawn points on some maps.
The engine cycles through all of these in order, so I have been creating situations where for example on assault 1337, one round 10 or so bots will flood in through the back door. The next round 20 will flood in through the front door.
Another round they drop like rain through the vent/ladder into the hostage room.

Another round a bot will spawn right next to the hostages and start running out with them in the first few seconds!

As a first test it has been wild fun!

I have noticed a few other thinks while hacking maps.
On vip maps TAKE OUT THE VIP SPAWN POINT!
This will cause the engine to cycle through the ct spawns picking on for the vip and this way we can move the ct spawns around to produce more random paths for the vip!

If you take out all buy zones, then every spawn point will have a mini buy zone around it giving us more flexibility in placing spawns!

[SoUlFaThEr]

that take outthe vip spawn is something new for my ears.........quite cool that would make my own as_slum really interesting !!

about putting in 50 spawns!!!!! thats adding a buttload of ePoly.....does the map lag then?

go console on one of these maps and type
developer 1 and then
r_speeds 1

and look if the ePoly are any bit above 3000...if they are......the map may lag(but only there.....) and many times one of the spawn areas is a bomb spot or hostage holding area.....and if spawns are placed in those numbers.....the timing of the map will change wickedly.....not sure if thats good or bad

bots are also ePoly o_O

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

LOL, I'm dumb

@SoUlFaThEr: no wonder the camp points don't work! I left a damn n00b bug in the code... instead of doing

if (v_dest == g_vecZero) // test if v_dest equals g_vecZero

I was doing

if (v_dest = g_vecZero) // put the value of g_vecZero into v_dest and test if the operation succeeded

shame on me
I've fixed that and I've witnessed the new camp points, they DO work now. Can I have your fixed waypoints for the default maps ? Once I have them I'll make a release. Also if possible you can record a demo of the ladder problem ; maybe I can fix that one too in the same time.