Bots get stuck at the top of ladder
 

If the direction of path from top ladder wp to next wp is left or right (no forward or back) bots get stuck at this top ladder wp. I made 2 screenshots from map de_train . Tested with latest beta sPlOrYgOn release and R2.1 ; pwf created 26.04.04 8:02 by SoUlFaThEr - for sure should be OK; CS1.5. I tryied to change the ladder wp on top of the ladder - if I do this wp a little bit higher - bot don't get stuck, but there is many maps and I don't like all re-waypoint with this ladder problem. On many maps this is impossible,too, because the ladder sometimes are finished at the top exactly at the floor level (floor up of the ladder) - so I can't put wp higher.:'(

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

yeah i have a few problems with ladders too...the thing is sometimes making funny connections or using a funny stratergy for ladders might work better with bot's...

on a map de_snipe_it5 terroists have a tower ladder thats ends shorter than the floor so i have to make a jump to the top
ct tower ladder is slightly longer than the floor and but i'm still trying to work arouund it :(


hey if any of u super pro wp'rs can give a breif tutorial on ladder trick it wuld be nice

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I will I am well I shouldn't brag but hey soulfather move over here I come. Give me about an hour and I will have one ready

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Ok lets start off with the basic placement. I am a visual Person so there are lots of pictures.

PLACEMENT- BOTTOM
The placement at the bottom of the ladder is usually pretty simple. The best way I have found is to place it as low as you can. But you have to actually be "climbing" the ladder or on it. The best way to get this low is to look straight at the ladder and walk into it, but don't look up because you will start climbing the ladder.
PICTURE FOR LADDER PLACEMENT-BOTTOM
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/bottom.JPG

PLACEMENT-TOP
This ladder waypoint is either very easy or very difficult to place depending on where the ladder is leading. Lets start simple first. Again you want this waypoint as high as possible on the ladder but you still want to be on the ladder. The best way to do this is to walk into the ladder from the top with out looking down this way you get "hooked" onto the ladder with out climbing down the ladder to much here is a picture for this one.
PICTURE FOR LADDER PLACEMENT-TOP
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/top.JPG

PLACEMENT-XTRAS
If you can't place this one you shouldn't ever try to do your own waypoints. (crude but true). Now you might be asking "Biohazerd what do I do if the ladder is really long?" Well all you gotta do is place a waypoint or two somewhere between the bottom waypoint and the top waypoint. They should be placed slightly farther apart than Normal waypoints to Normal waypoints. NOTE TO USER THIS WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO BE ON THE LADDER.
But here is a picture just to show you.

PICTURE FOR LADDER PLACEMENT-XTRAS
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/ladder1.JPG

PLACEMENT OF REALLY HARD AND ANNOYING WAYPOINTS
This is where it begins to get a little harder but if you read well and try hard anyone can do it. (does that sound cheesey?) Lets say you have a problem such as this...(see pic)
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/2.JPG
And right about now it will hit you! "How will the bot get from point A to point B" is what you might be asking. Well it's rather simple if you use some advanced features of the waypoint code (props to soulfather and everyone else involved). Start by using the little ledge on the side by placing a few waypoints on it. Like so... (pic)
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/3.JPG
and somewhere about now you should be asking, But won't the bot still try to walk from point A to point B and fall? I must point out you are quick. Here is how we fix it. First delete the all the Pathwaypoints from all 4 waypoints.
Then link each one to only the next closest. IE A-B-C-D not A-C or A-D that will defeat the purpose. This way the bot goes only where it can. See pic for details...
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/4.JPG

PLACEMENT OF LADDERWAYPOINTS IF SOMETHING BIG OR A WALL BLOCKS THE WAY

Lets start off with the picture...
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/ok.JPG

Now how would the bot get from point A to point B when point C (the wall) is blocking the way. Well simple, just make the way point higher on the ladder. By doing this the bot is more likely to climb higher on the ladder and then run off. This allows the bot to clear point C. View picture...
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/highwaypoint.JPG

MORE HELP WITH REGULAR PLACEMENT OF WAYPOINTS

Ok again lets start with the picture...
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/hardclimb.JPG
although the waypoint placement would work but if you notice the angle of the pathwaypoint isn't level. This will make the bot try to walk forward before reaching the top of the ladder. by placing it like the picture below you should get better results.
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/easyer.JPG


Thats it for now and remember this is what "I" have found works best. You may have a better tactic and it may work better. This is only a QUICK overview of waypoints nothing dramatic if you would like the entire thing just ask me

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

aye,nice but my problem resides in the fact that my bottom ladder wp sits nicely on the ladder. i sqaure myself to the ladder crouch n walk into it till i just get hooked, but the bots can't climb the ladder in 1st go if i place it slightly higher they hacve problems ...i dunno what i'm doing wrong

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Unfortuantly you will have to be more spacific do you mean they won't even climb the ladder at all or are they falling off or what. And which ladder might this be

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Nice tut, biohazerd! I agree in most points. Please allow me to add that in the first example for a difficult ladder setting (the A-B-C-D thingy) one problem could arise: A (the first normal WP behind the top of the ladder) might be too close to the upper ladder WP. This could result in bots thinking they had reached this WP A (remember there is a hardcoded tolerance for bots) as soon as they're on top of the ladder. So they could turn back to walk to B before stepping up the floor.
The solution to this is easy: If it occurs (or, if you have some experience under your belt and see that it's likely to occur), turn noclip on and place B a short distance into the wall.
Another aspect you didn't mention (because your tutorial was about getting up there) is a good way to make bots go down the ladder. Instead of having them walk around the hole, just make a one-way connection from D to the upper ladder WP - UNLESS the distance is too far. But if this is the case, you can still make bots jump to the upper ladder WP from D... ;)

In the following example, the best way to get bots from the ladder to the top floor would be to place a WP next to the ladder directly at the wall. This way, bots will leave ladders to the right side. But I suppose when you took this example, you meant a spot where there are walls at three sides of the ladder, right? In that case, your solution would be really good.
Another nice one is a jump from the upper ladder WP to point A - just stand at the upper ladder WP, hit your "jump" key, and you will be catapulted straight back from the ladder. If the distance is not too big, it will work fine.

Oh, and Huntkillaz: I agree with bio, I still didn't really understand what you're getting at... sorry. Describe it again in detail for us stupid guys, please... :D

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

OK - this is is totally ununderstable for me ???:(. This is probably some trick - I need see an example - maybe You have one?

Nobody said that You are stupid...
I think I know what is Hutkillaz meaning. The problem is like on pict. nr.7 of bio, but the top of ladder is finishing exactly at the floor level or a little bit down. In this case You don't have the posiibility place a top ladder wp higher (like bio made this, because his ladder was higher on this map). I said that in my opening this thread post,too . The problem is only when in this situation I described here bot should go left or right form the top of ladder and the ladder is finished at the top exactly at floor level (floor at the top of ladder) or a little bit down. The same situation but bot shoud go forward from the ladder - I don't have this problem. But this thread went in the direction to change all wp ladder on all maps, but my basic question on my first post in this thread was - is this really needed change all top ladder WP to get bot to work or maybe there is something to do in bot code? Why this was working before? Maybe can some coder say something more...PMB said only something about necessity of changing all camp WP's, because there were some bugs in bot's code - OK - but about ladders nobody said nothing.:(
Maybe SF can say something more - my example was form de_train - I'm sure he was trying this and it was workable for him - so it means something was changed in the code. Probably coders had some reasons to do this, but why once again nobody said nothing...:( I will try this pwf with latest PMB version from 26.04.04 - probably it will work.
[EDIT]
I just tryied this PMB last release from 26.04.04 - I'm unnice surprised ???:(- this is not working , too. Bots get stuck at the top of ladders (the same ladders I showed in first post of this thread) on de_train map. Probably SF will be unnice surpriced, too. He didn't know about some changes in the ladders climbing code, too. There is described (in versionhistory.txt) something about AIM code on ladders, but nothing about climbing...

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Thanks man. I will try some of the noclip tricks but I found this way works the best. I play that map all the time and never have had a bot fall off that ladder

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Again you are not discribing to me good enough about what the bits arn't doing correctly. Tell me in 25 words or less what EXACTLY they do when they climb the ladder. I'm not mad or anyhing and the only reason i did the waypoint Manual was so EVERYONE could use it. I wasn't sure about what you ment. I am getting a picture of what BKA was talking about


WAYPOINT B IS HIDDEN INSIDE THE WALL
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/ladder2.JPG

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

yea I was going to tell SoUlFaThEr of that ladder problem in de_train...
must have slipped my mind :D

on a side note...
I have just accidently deleted my most recent version of podbot's source code... :D

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I don't have it you never gave it to me you only gave me the DLL sorry man

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

lol don't worry..
only a few things got changed and the bug's fix is posted in the forums :D

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I believe you. My comment about the noclip trick was not directed at this specific spot or at any particular map. All I wanted to point out is that in some cases the distance between the upper ladder WP and the next normal WP on top can be so small that the "reached" radii of both WPs overlap. As a consequence, a bot going up the ladder might reach the upper ladder WP and at the same time think he had reached the next normal WP already.
Look at the balconies in cs_backalley or cs_hive_apc: If you climb up there, you'll see that the ladder ends almost directly in front of a railing. There's only a tiny space where you can stand. If you place a normal WP there, it will probably be too close to the upper ladder WP. As a result, bots won't be able to keep these two WPs apart. They will climb up the ladder and turn back immediately, thus getting stuck or falling down. In such cases you need a little trick to get a sufficient distance between the waypoints - like placing the first normal WP inside a wall or outside of a railing in noclip mode.

@sPlOrYgOn: Coders should only be given access to keyboards and programs without delete functions... :D

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

OK - I see - I still have some communication problem (sorry for my so bad English). Look at my first post and at my attachements. Then You will see what bot is trying to do. It try to go to the next normal wp across the floor (bot is still a little bit too down, so it can't reach the next normal WP, because the edge of the floor is the obstacle for bot). I'm sure - when I'm staying at the top of the ladder and I put the WP ladder in this place - in some previous version it was sufficient for bot to reach correctly the top of ladder and go to the next normal WP. Now this is not sufficient. You have switch on noclip mode , You have place the top ladder WP a little bit under end-top of the ladder and in this case bot reach correctly the top of the ladder and it can go to the next normal WP.
If my description is still not sufficient for You - You can experience this simply at Your computer. I show You how can You see this what I can see at my computer.
1. Take the latest sPlOrYgOn R2.1 complete version (with pwf files from SF).
2. Find in Your WPTDEFAULT directory the files de_train.pwf, de_train.pvi, de_train.pxp and move their to some another directory (for save these files if You want).
3. Open this sPlOrYgOn release and look to the WPTDEFAULT directory in his release and copy the file de_train.pwf (created 26.04.04 by SF) to Your PODBOT\WPTDEFAULT directory.
4. Start the game as a spectator on the map de_train on listenserver.
5. Observe the WP index number 222 what are bots trying to do during climbing.
6. Observe the WP index number 299 what are bots trying to do during climbing.
7. Write here what can You see.

I hope this should be much more understanding for You when You see this at Your computer.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Ah, yes. This was a clear description. Dammit, you're right! The same occurs between nodes 112 and 84.
Originally, when bots came up a ladder, they kept moving upwards a bit and kind of "jumped" onto top level. Now, upon reaching the upper ladder WP, they immediately look towards their next WP - in the example I mentioned, de_train 112 => 84, straight to the right and get stuck.
They no longer use the speed they get when climbing up a ladder to "catapult" themselves over the edge. I noticed the same in the WP set for de_rock I'm currently testing. So it wasn't my bad, it's the new dll. :(

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Ok I think I fixed it it worked for me everytime

Lets start from the waypoint 222. First thing to do is delete it. Put a new one in place as high as you can on the ladder like so
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/fixed.jpg
After adding the ladder waypoint make a pathwaypoint from point A to point B but make sure it is bidirection so buts can goto it and come from it.

Ok now on to waypoint 299 I think it is. Again delete it and make a new ladder waypoint as high as possible. Like so
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/fixed2.jpg
BUT YOU HAVE TO DELETE THE PATHWAYPOINT FROM POINT A TO POINT B if you do not do this it is completely usless. Now make sure point B to point C has a bidirectional Pathwaypoint so bots can travel both ways. And if this doesn't help i will send you the fixed copy of the waypoints


THIS IS FOR SOULFATHER
in the picture below i have circled a flag called Crossing. I can't seem to find it in the waypoint editor. What is it and how do i get it?
http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/crossing.jpg

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Ok, the ladder problems can be solved by rewaypointing. BUT I don't feel the slightest motivation to fix up all waypoint files AGAIN! Besides, what do you want to do in places where both the ladder and the ceiling aren't high enough for this workaround? Nah, there's something in the code that has changed, and it must be changed back.
It makes no sense to stick to PB 2.5 WP compatibility when at the same time 90% of all waypoint sets with ladders are technically compatible, but totally ruined for gameplay. No way!

The crossing flag cannot be set manually. It's a flag that will be automatically added to all T important, CT important and camp waypoints. These are the points that will be "patrolled" by the bots. When spectating a game, you might witness a bot running into a corner where a camp WP is placed and then running back - they are "patrolling" the camp spot... Since most camp WPs are in some obscure corners, they are not used for normal navigation very often. But the "crossing" flag will attract bots to camp WPs every now an then.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

These waypoints are not for PODbot 2.5 I am doing this in PODBOT 2.6mm R2.1. And the coding is fine it's not hard to fix it took me like 10 seconds don't be lazy lol

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

The FL_CROSSING flag is an old flag that is deprecated since POD-Bot 2.5 ; it was used internally in earlier versions for the bots to know that this waypoint was a choke point between both teams (hence a potentially dangerous waypoint). This flag isn't used anywhere anymore in the POD-Bot code.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I said about this workaround before - when You all try once again read my posts in this thread (regardless of my bad English) I said - "I can place the top ladder WP a little bit higher ...", but sometimes the ladder is too low and You have to use next workaround - noclip mode and You have to put the top ladder WP under (I should say "over" - sorry it's my mistake) ladder...I know all of this - my question is - if we really have to-rewaypoint all maps with ladders?
About this change back in the code - I suppose, this currently bot's behavior on ladders is corresponding to the modification with AIM code on the ladder. Before this modification bots were looking up during climbing and probably a side effect was catapulting bot to the normal WP at the floor of the top of ladder. After fixing this (now bots don't look up but they can fight) - this side effect not exist, but now many pwf files with ladders doesn't work. Need ask PMB about some suggestion/solution for sPlOrYgOn. So - this code can't be changed back but need new solution. Or maybe I'm wrong...9_9

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

ok i am confused did you want help on de_train. From what is sounds like you are saying everymap you have the ladder waypoints don't work? I have never had that happen.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

probably what he meant was he was too lazy/unmotivated to go through all the waypoints he made and see if it has this problem then fix it if it does.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Maybe You are right - I'm too lazy. The problem is not only waypoints I made, but waypoints we have . Try to calculate all time we need to check all maps if bots get stuck on ladder or not and after correct. For You probably this is only 2 hours work with changing something in the code (maybe this time is too big for so good coder like You - don't be offended).
For camp wp we know - need go to camp wp, delete all and place the new one. BTW - maybe You can add some function "go to the next wp camp" for too lazy waypointers?;)
Please, speak with SoUlFaThEr about this ladders problem. If for him it's not problem check and correct all his 10000 pwf - no problem, I will wait. Maybe You can speak with PMB, too - what is he thinking about this problem.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

problem is I'm not as good a coder as PMB..
I'm not that good at all..
if I knew how to fix this through code I probably would've done it already :(

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

First off it's not like everymap will have this problem. And what are you so worried about it for? Your not selling bots or waypoints so I'm sure your Corprate stocks aren't going to drop lol. It's not like we have to got to everymap ever waypointed and fix this. If there is a problem in the map let a user tell us then we can fix it. There is no need to check all the waypoints

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

first i just glanced over the answers ans skipped big images ?(thye're too big :P)

i think problem is not with waypoints but with the code
i got the waypoints well performed (by soulfather) but i have noticed the bots have problem with climbing the ladders

let me describe it to you
1. bot has desire to climb, he cleses to the enarest waypoint to the lagger (not waypoint ladder)
2. then bot goes to the waypoint ladder and tries to climb
3 when he tries to then it goes slightly backwardy and up, but that means he is off the ladder, even if he was on it, so he is looped in the action of :
come over the ladder waypoint,
look up
move a but up
move a bit back
lost the connection with ladder around the heingt of jump
he lands on the floor
he tries to get to the ladder (again and again...)

4. sometimes it manages to climb anyway
but i noticed that if bot cannot move to the back he can easly climb - in example if you are going just after the bt and he just starts to climb and you block it it then cannot move back and then climbs up as it should

i guess maybe changing the radius reqired to reach the ladder waypoint should be decreased ?
cause rewaypointing of all waypointed allready maps will not be a nice task :D

notice the bots does not have problem with going down on ladder, its the goimg up the biggest problem for them


another thing about waypoints,
would be nice to add the builtin function that would read old waypoints, rewrote the camp wp with exackly the same values but with added new features required for bot to camp, then save it to old file

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I didn't say we need re-waypoint all. I said only - we need check all if there is this problem or not. If we will wait only for feedback from users - they can say only - "No - this bot has problem with climbig on ladders. No, no - we have to use another bot". I don't want this.

Maybe I don't understand 100% of this, but I can hear some sounds rude here...I will not comment this...
Maybe You are right - maybe I'm worried too much...9_9

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

All I can say is that in order to make this bot popular, it must RUN. It must WORK. If there's a little bug, ok. If bots don't throw grenades, perfectly, ok.
But ppl will only use a bot that supports their favourite maps, and there were zillions of PODBot waypoints for 2.5 on the net. That's what helped to make PB 2.5 so popular.
PB 2.6mm is not only a sandbox ecperiment for us few guys at BU, or at least that's my point of view. Many people I know would love to use this bot, but so far, critical (crash-causing) bugs have kept them from doing so. Now that most of these bugs are fixed, you suddenly have the problem that even on standard maps shipped with the bot, waypoints don't work anymore. This is much worse than using old 2.5 camp points, because with old camp points, all that happens is that bots will look into weird directions. But this ladder problem is making serious gameplay impossible. And if users see bots get stuck on ladders with most waypoints, they WILL think that it's the bot. I agree with KWo in this respect. Remember, not everybody out there knows anything about bots - most just want to USE them, PLAY with them. They won't care about lengthy explanations concerning changed ladder code etc.
And they won't put up with having to request new waypoints for many maps.
If I d/l'ed PB 2.6mm and saw that bots get stuck on most ladders, I woudn't search for a forum until I finally find the explanation given here, then learn about waypointing only to fix those ladders. I wouldn't like to request WPs for each and every map I like and then have to wait and hope for the mercy of some waypointer, either. I'd want to be able to enter "PB 2.6mm waypoint download" in Google and find a site where I get WPs, and WORKING WPs.
Besides, KWo is totally right: There are places where workarounds are likely to fail (take the vents leading up to the ground level bomb spot in de_nuke).

I think the best solution to this would be code-wise, not waypoint-wise. Even sPlOrYgOn as our official coder said he would fix this in the code - if he knew how. Ok, so let's try our best to help.
Could this problem be caused by the fact that the bots are no longer "locked" to a certain direction when climbing ladders? AFAIR, this used to be the case with older PB versions. The downside was that bots couldn't fight each other while climbing ladders because they were prohibited from aiming at their enemy due to this lock.
Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to re-introduce the lock BUT in a way that it gets deactivated as soon as an enemy is in sight? And reactivate it as soon as the enemy has vanished (fled or died)? Or is this too complicated?
And does anybody remember when this ladder code was changed? If we manage to find a dll that was programmed AFTER the code change but works, the sloution might be much easier to find. I'm gonna look and see if I find something...
-------------EDIT------------
Gotcha! Found a dll from April, 5, 2004; tested and... it works! If my memory doesn't fail me biiiig time, this was after the "ladder lock" was deactivated. And it still worked! Now all it takes is a comparison of the ladder code and maybe general bot navigation in these two dll's to sort out the differences and see which change caused the problem. I hope.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Whoa! Really, I am not trying to be rude I am kinda being sarcastic. If i can off as rude and i usually am I am sorry

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

That's exactly it.

the problem with reintroducing the lock is that the bot won't be able to SEE the enemies anymore. No, instead, a more clever ladder code must be used. For example, when you climb the ladder at the CT spawn in cs_assault, you don't look straight up until the top of the ladder, as soon as you can see above the building, you turn yourself in that direction and finish climbing the ladder by STRAFING RIGHT. This is what the bots should do when their next waypoint is more or less 90° on the left according to the ladder angles.

In a former DLL I tried to make a quick and dirty fix by temporarily setting the origin of the faulty waypoint (the one AFTER the ladder) a little higher and a little closer to the bot. It helped a bit for some ladders, but I had not tested it thoroughly for all at all, so that might be a direct incidence of that modification.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Oops... in fact, I never did that. :D I always kind of go into the corner when climbing up there - until I get over the edge. But nice idea, that right strafe one...

Do you remember when you removed the lock I mentioned? Was it really after the dll I found (Apr, 5 or something)?

Dang, this is not easy to get right. In general, bots must be forced to look upwards when going over the edge. Otherwise in some maps, some ladders will cease to work altogether. On the other hand, however, they must be free to fight an enemy - at least another bot on the same ladder. If they can't do that, we will see those "bot pyramids" on long ladders again... :(

Hmmmm... how do bots recognize that they're stuck in another bot? If there's some code for "detecting collisions with other players" or whatever it may be called, maybe it could be used as a trigger to override the ladder movement lock. This way, they would at least be able to shoot an enemy bot who is between them and their next WP - instead of being stuck forever.

Or could the viewing angle be locked to a value that would make it impossible not to see an obstacle blocking the ladder? Let's say if you look forward, parallel to the ground, that's an angle of 0° (z axis). 90° would be looking vertically upwards. Now if you climb up somewhere and look 80 - 89° upwards, I guess you will see everything that's above you on the ladder. And if bots could see their enemies on the ladder, they could enter combat mode (overriding the lock) and fight them, couldn't they? Same procedure for downward movement, of course.

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

I'm agree with You, T Wrecks - there is something to do with fighting bots on the ladders, too. But I think for this we will need to open the separate thread, because this one staying to be a little bit too big like some threads in the past at this forum...;)
I can add only one word to this situation on cs_assault at this big ladder - last time I was waiting for bot there - at the edge of the building near the top of the ladder. I simply killed two bots before reaching by them top of the ladder, because they didn't try to look at the target of its climbing.:D
I'm agree with PMB about this change in ladders fighting mode - now they can shoot during climbing because they look paralell to the ground - this is 100% OK. But I think , they should look sometimes during climbing also up and down to better see the situation (these situations described by T Wrecks and me). There is whole problem with this "look around" of bot. I noticed the fact - bots remember the last sound and view of enemie and they are still looking at that direction. The result is this , that they go and look at the wall (because they remember last enemie direction) and they don't see waiting for them enemies behind its back. If this is not clear what I described now, I can prepare some screenshots for better understanding the problem.
Stop KWo - need new thread for this...:)

OK - about ladder climbing problem now all is clear - there is something to do with bot's climbing code and now this thread can be closed, I think. Who can do this (close this thread)?

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

so i suppose, ladies and gents, that when this ladder code piece is "fixed", that my waypoints will still be knee-smacking, toe-jamming, nut-scratchin, downright nice stuff??

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

No. You'll just have to fix all your WPs again, dude :D Hehehe, hopefully not. I'd have to do the same, and I sure wouldn't want to do that AGAIN.
Well, now we gotta see how to fix that code. IMHO, the ladder code is a bit f*cked up anyway - tomorrow I'm gonna attach some screenies to show situations where bots don't do what they're supposed to do on a ladder - kick another bot's arse!

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

/slightly off topic

i still am getting the bot's colide n stuck together at waypoints (ene if wp has large radius) i got screenshots and demo's i'll post up whne i get home

i suspect there is a problem in bot collides func since i see em mostly stuck at ground wp's

here's a dem i'm not sure how good it is... or if it's the correct one

also how i got really tired of aiming at this really high wpt..............wondering why it automatically connects the top n bottom wp's even though they r so far apart....don't tell me it's autopath max distance :( (i have that set at 250 default n never chANGE IT)

oh and here's something really weird:

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

*bump*

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Nope, it doesn't have anything to do with apmd settings. It's the ladder waypoint code. It's been corrected to fix some bugs (e.g. a wrong connection being drawn from the upper ladder WP to the lower approach point). Now two ladder WPs get automatically connected bidirectionally (used to be only up => down), no matter how long the distance between them is. The drawback is that when you have more ladder WPs, you gotta delete some connections manually - and this can be a serious PITA with the new aiming system.
Use the option "Cache this waypoint" from the WP menu when you're at the upper ladder WP. Now go down to the lowest ladder WP and hit your "delete connection" key twice. The connection will be removed.

Dang, come to think of it, I think there's a bug in the WP cache function - /me rushes off to test

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

Yes , I can confirm this. Many times I cached some wp, and after I tryied remove some connection and I saw the situations:
a) message Already no Path to this Waypoint
b) deleting of some another connection , not to cached wp.
Similar problems with adding path to some cached wp.

But - once again - please - start new thread for new problem.:)

Re: Bots get stuck at top of ladder
 

That should be simple to fix. I added the waypoint cache option in a rush because I wanted SoUlFaThEr and T Wrecks not to use their fingers in the console anymore :)