waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Perhaps its a good idea to run a waypoint database. Here you can put everything for every bot.

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

In the making:

faq.bots-united.com
waypoints.bots-united.com
maps.bots-united.com
downloads.bots-united.com

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

l33t!

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

It would be cool with a search engine on the waypoints database

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

I'm a good Waypointer. I may can work 4 u.

----
Sorry, my english is very bad

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

We might take that offer (after council decision) !

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

I'm working on RealBot nodes, which could possibly be helpful. I run a small server with a group of 3-6 friends on at one time (all of whom are willing to play new maps, ie. requests). I haven't done waypoints before, but I can contribute RealBot WIP nodes if there is any kind of demand for it (currently, I only have a few of them hosted on my webspace).

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

YEah! Why not :)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

I have an old website that isn't getting updated anymore and it would be a shame to let it go away :/

its domain: http://www.waypointwarehouse.co.uk

remember, its on geocities and it can't get much bandwidth so please do not all descend on it at once :P

I have plenty of waypoints there that could be on the new waypoint site you want to make, I have all the files on my hard-drive if you have any spots to upload them :P (about 11.5 meg worth!)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Thanx cheese! It would be a good place till the "official" waypoint page is done. =)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

i'm a little busy right now, but if you wanted a custom waypoint uploading/storage/search/retrieval system (probably PHP/MYSQL), I could probably make one. i had started working on an idea like this but scrapped it because i didn't have a host to put it on or the time right then.

~Dav

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Propose this in the "Agora" forum, and well have a council vote about the matter. (though i think i know the answer :), but democracy is democracy)

Dont worry about hosting, well find a solution for that ... :)

Nova

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Would the rb_r files from Cheeseh's site work for the latest realbot WIP which has rbx files?? If so, would they go in the exp folder since there isn't a learning folder?

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

For such a question, you'd better asking in the Realbot forum I think :)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Can a mod move it to the realbot forum then so there's not a double post?

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Hi,

i had made a quick zip yesterday,that would fit into here:
[waypoints for the old(er) RealBot AI v 1.0.]
(*edit* PM me for the maps if you need them for waypoints.bots-united.com)

i also have about the same maps for the Valve bot.. just tell me if they can be usefull.


Cheers MeMeD


(note: i know one map misses correct start points, i.e. they won't start to walk, unless you radio them to follow you, but i can't remember the name...)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

I'd like to point out something I have realized during the last months:

1) There are plenty of waypoints for the most popular bots on the web.

2) Unfortunately, 90% of them suck.

I only know about PODBot waypoints, but since I'm a pretty good waypointer myself I know a bad waypoint file when I see one - and concerning PB waypoints, I've seen loads of sh*t so far. Excuse my language, but it's true.

Therefore I'd propose some kind of quality check - I mean, I'm sure I`m not the only one in this forum who understands a bit about waypoints, so maybe it would be possible to have forum members check submitted waypoint files prior to adding them to a waypoint database. This might be a way to guarantee a certain quality level.
To speak in PODBot terms, a waypoint file worse than any of TAZ's, for example, should be a waypoint file to go straight to the recycle bin and not to a database, if you know what I mean...
I don't know how many pwf's I have d/l'ed, looked at, deleted - and then replaced with my own waypoint instead. It would be nice if we could save the bots-united guests that trouble.

What do you guys think...?

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

How about RB waypoint files then? I don't know about quality checks there, as its so easy to waypoint maps i don't think you can really have 'good' or 'bad' waypointers there. Ofcourse you can totally mess one file up, but that would not be 'waypointing' ;)

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Well, I don't know RB - but I really hope waypointing that bot is as simple as you say.
The thing is that waypointing maps for PB isn't difficult, either. I mean, if a moron like me can figure it out in several hours and get pretty good at waypointing after 4 or 5 maps, it can't be a big deal.
The real problem is not that there are too many waypointers who lack talent or skill. Most of them just don't want to spend more than 10 minutes waypointing a map, and they never ever test their waypoints. All it takes is some time, diligence and concentration. But in many cases, that's asking too much...

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Hi,
since i know that P.I.T.A. of waypointing, and we have quite some bots around i would suggest to make this a real systematic project with a well thought working sheme.

This would start with some things to clear:
- the bots supported
- some documentation how the different bot's work
- the different quality checks for the different bot's (pitfall checks)
- minimum quality to be included in the database
- distribution format (.exe, zip or tar.gz, one per map <-> all in one)


For realbot WIP this would be by far the easiest:

for RB the minimum would be to walk trough the level, without using tricky ways (no one-way jumps, allways in the middle of the way, no crouching or jumping, only ladders where they can fall down w/o injury). They need to be able to reach all spawnpoints and the targets, this way they start with a totaly error free waypointing and won't get stuck at first. The rest can be learned from the humans.

I can't say something about other bot's i don't use them often (perhaps now, heard steam broke realbot..)

Cheers memed

p.s.
i consider a non stucking bot to be more perfect than a bot walking everywhere but failing to reach the targets in time

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Ok, that sounds like we already got some reasonable criteria for RB waypoints... =)
Concernig PODBot Waypoints, I'd propose the following criteria:
- There should be no jumps / falls that lead to more than 5 points of health damage. Otherwise bots might die after repeating a certain jump for 2 or 3 times.
- They should reach all mission targets (duh.)
- There shouldn't be any wrong connections where they try to walk up a wall forever...
- If there are several ways to a point of the map, all ways where bots can go should be waypointed. I hate it when you know exactly where bots can appear and when, and from which direction.
From that point on, I think it starts becoming a matter of taste. Personally, if there's an outrageously mean sniper spot, I want bots to be able to go there and everywhere else on the map where it's possible to get them.
[ ...to boldly go where no bot has gone before... 8D ]
But other people might prefer more simple and direct waypoints. That's why I would keep them (the wp's, not the people ;)) away from the map, in separate files. This way we could offer two or three different files, maybe with a little comment (just one sentence where necessary, no extensive reviews) and the name of the waypointer, perhaps? I mean, if I see a PB waypoint done by TAZ, I know it's quality, so I wouldn't hesitate to d/l it. But if I see [censored]'s name, I know it's nothing I'm going to like.
Anyway you're totally right: We should spend enough thought on it before starting the whole stuff...
Oh, and one last thought about the distribution format: In general I prefer WinRAR to other packers, since its compression level is superior to WinZip. But in case of waypoints, filesizes are so small that it might be the best idea to offer them in the most frequently used format, zip. After all, it doesn't matter if the file is 34 kB or 37 kB in size, or does it?

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

oh nice feedback :-)

for the different levels of waypoint detail (*g*) "lowd"
[load *g*] id suggest to make a minimal version a must, for enhanced versions should be explained what the waypointer enhanced it for (e.g. special areas, sniperpoints, removal of buggy wp's)

for the distribution i found that all newer winzip/rar can do tar.gz, but if the make a zip (on win) which misses the binary flag (like in ftp) it can get messed up when decompressing with unzip in linux. Oh and the tar.bz2 is also supported widely and uses a very good compression, i'd suggest that for big all-in-on packs.

oh and yes of coures, WP's are to be kept separate from bot's or maps, atlast in the back end. i dream of a CS download assistant, you choose realbot and some maps, it' downloads all needed stuff (realbot, map, waypoints, sounds),

cheers

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

:D Glad to contribute... Especially because there seem to be some nice and civilised people in these forums. I used to visit a CS gun modelling forum, and the first reply I ever got was a stupid flame - for requesting a custom gun model in a custom gun model request forum ???:(
Anyway, back to the topic:
Stupid me - you're right. I totally forgot about linux users! So why not take tar.gz? If it's supported by all recent programs for all important OS'es...

With regard to the waypoints, it may indeed be the best idea to offer a "basic edition" as standard, and optionally some more elaborate waypoints. The problem with PB, for example, is that the more possibilities bots get, the higher is the risk that they fall down somewhere because when engaged in combat they don't stick strictly to the waypoints... And that's the point where ppl should be able to choose which way they like it: Do I want a "straight" waypoint set, or do I prefer having bots run over telephone cables, although they may occasionally fall down and die?

Hm, that download assistant sounds nice, but I wonder if the trouble programming it is worth the benefit?

Another point we haven't addressed yet is the fact that some maps are ideal to play with bots, while other maps are great with all human players, but virtually unplayable with bots. Can RB bots use lifts, for example? Or can they open those doors that need to be pushed ("use" key) instead of just walked into? PB bots can't... That's why it might be a good idea to introduce a map rating by "bottability" :) After all, this is a page focused on bots...

Re: waypoints.bot-united.com?
 

Yes the usability for certain maps is a good point, we must keep that in mind.

for the download thing, it's a dream ...