File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

The US Supreme Court has ruled that file-sharing companies are to blame for what users do with their software.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4627679.stm

So who are they going to sue when the P2P network goes fully open source?

ISP's must be next on the hit list.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

funny how the US gives the world a stupid example (again). But then again, i don't care, as i live in the Netherlands, they cannot sue me for anything. The nice things about laws is, they belong only to the country that make them. So if the US wants to screw up their users, go ahead! :D

I am wondering when one will sue a company producing knifes... will they sue them for 'making it possible to kill someone with their tools' ?... :S

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

Actually that is a serious issue. The design of some weapons makes them popular for illegal and murderous use. Producers should be held accountable for their part of the problem, and their denial of it.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

P2P aside, a lot of things - too numerous tomention - can be used for illegal purposes, and some of these things are more popular than others because of the design.

The p2p ruling opens a huge can of wriggling worms which is why all the lower courts rightfully rejected the claim.

I think this sentence sums it all up ...
If strictly interpreted the ruling means that these hi-tech firms will have to try to predict the ways people can use these devices to pirate copyrighted media and install controls to stop this infringement.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

This will only encourage users to use more anonymizers, proxies and little known P2P clients. They're fighting water with a sabre.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

Yes, but it'll still be quite a few years till they reliaze their buisness model is obsolete. Lawyers win, consumers and technology loses.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

I think that this is very sad news. If you look at it, it is actually not just about p2p programs, it's regarding everything. Quite scary since everything practically can be used for bad stuff if you want.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

I find the ruling quite reasonable.

They rule that if p2p software is marketing'ed as a tool to get illegal music and movies or something like that, then the creators of the software are responsibel for it.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

Its bad because it creates a slippery slope. They're going to keep pushing this farther and farther now since they've gained this little bit of ground. As its been said before, others such as ISPs are going to eventually be held responsible for their users.

Plus, as Botmeister pointed out:
If strictly interpreted the ruling means that these hi-tech firms will have to try to predict the ways people can use these devices to pirate copyrighted media and install controls to stop this infringement.

This means eventual monitoring by law enforcement of what ISP's clients do, and it means built-in corporate control of user's PCs (such as DRM).

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

good point. I only hope Europe will not let this pass.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

IMO this whole thing has a dual purpose, one much more sinister than the other.

In the open, it is only about monopolizing control over copyrighted material, but behind the scenes, it's about controling the content that is flowing through the internet, an dthat is the grand prize.

The threat the internet posses to the ruling establishment is very high, because for the first time in history the ability to mass disseminate information is no longer in the hands of a few corporate entities which could be easily controled.

What is happening is a free for all revolution, where ordinary people for the first time ever can see alternate points of view and speak openly about a wide range of topics (such as this one). People can get organized and informed many times more easily than ever before, which means those who have access to the internet will be much more difficult to control than those who do not.

That to me is the reason why the high courts will continue make totally unacceptable rulings in an effort to restrict access to the internet.

If my prediction is correct, then we should see plenty of rulings which limit what is published on the internet as opposed to what is viewed. The reason why publishing must be restricted but not vieweing, is because the ruling establishment will want to make use of the internet as a means of pushing its own adgenda, so they will want as many viewers as possible. What they will try and restrict at all costs is content publishing, especially anonymous publishing on P2P networks. As we've seen with bitorrent websites, it is easy to shut them down because it is easy to determine who runs the website and what ISP is in use, so traditional websites are not so much of a threat. P2P networks are another matter, since with proper encryption and anonymization there's nothing to identify. .

Ultimately, as the P2P networks are driven underground (see Freenet, Entropy, Tor and I2P) they will attack the ISP's and legislate laws which make using a P2P network illegal altogether.

Well, that was my attempt at impersonating Nostradamus anyway :)

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

Some very good points made. I don't use P2P myself but i agree that this ruling is only a stepping stone to further more-harsh control methods, such as DRM & other hardware controlled monitoring (which HangFire pointed out)

I don't care about P2P myself but i don't care for all that hardware controlling stuff, sounds creepy.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

P2P definitely has legitimate use and I've made use from P2P (mostly bittorrent) on several occasions for legally downloading software. What is going on, is an attack on a legitimate technology based on a very questionable reasoning.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

maybe M$ is in on this too and is trying to stop Bittorrent since it distributes GNU/Linux distros... :|

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

this is beginning to turn into one big conspiracy-thread i think.

This is still only regarding companies that specifically marketing their products as a way to commit crimes.

I know this might be seen as a slippery slope-thingie, but I don't think a law is unreasonable only because 'the next law' might not be.

I share your fear for the future, but i also know that the internet wont be controlled, even if they make it illegal. It's not gonna happen.

Another thing i firmly believe is that when capitalist institutions try to enforce the development of the internet or society, they forget that _we_ are the society. When the laws of society are representing the capitalist agenda and the people are not, society as we know it is no more.

We are society. Nobody else. That's why it isn't us against them. It's just interests against other intererest. What is concerning in this perspective is that the interestests that opposes us are the fundamental driving forces in our society. They have the money in a capitalistic society.

So is that a problem? I don't really think so, because at some time, it will become clear that the guys with the money aren't representing society any more. They aren't representing us. This will hopefully mean that society will be based around the free flow of information instead of the free flow of money, or something like that.

Which would be kinda neat, i think.

At this point in my post i realise that I'm representing two opposing views here, so i guess I have to think about it...

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

controlling the flow on the internet, sounds like something impossible to do.... except if you create some sort of censur and dicatorship about the internet and its 'viewers'. Like said, its not bound to borders, or other stuff.

Personall i don't think any law can force the internet in a direction. I even think, if someone will somehow manage to force down the internet for limited use, some new protocol will be 'invented' and a new internet is born. in the end, its only a cable plugged in your computer, sending and recieving data. The "internet" is nothing but a widely accepted standard protocol... there will always be a free internet ;)

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

I think it is very easy to control the internet.
Just make a law that will restrict providers and / or let them filter ip addresses / domain names and filter on word etc. etc.
And voila. the door is shut.
Then only free internet for a happy few who are able to set up there own illegal internet junction to the big backbones.
All regular consumers bite the dust since they can only connect to legal ISP's

Im not saying it will happen but it is easy enough.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

They've killed P2P in the USA as a business with this ruling, and no one has to be found guilty of anything.

The point of all this is not to find the makers of P2P software liable, it's the threat of liability that counts. The threat makes it almost impossible to get significant investment for development, and it's impossible for a small start up to defend against a law suit from the likes of the RIAA, etc.

All that's left fromthis point forward is open soucre p2p networks, and my guess is they'll go after the isp's next.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

IMO you're wrong here, for all the internet protocols are encapsulated into the IP protocol. The IP protocol is something like [source MAC][dest MAC][flags][port][data]. Filter out the port and you take any new protocol down. That's how firewall works, btw.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

What's happening to the internet is a conspiracy.

This new development came in today ...
Bush administration annexes internet

An extraordinary statement by the US government has sent shockwaves around the internet world and thrown the future of the network into doubt.

In a worrying U-turn, the US Department of Commerce (DoC) has made it clear it intends to retain control of the internet's root servers indefinitely. It was due to relinquish that control in September 2006, when its contract with overseeing body ICANN ended.

Re: File-sharing suffers major defeat
 

So far the US has done a "passable" job of governing the internet. I would still prefer it to be in the hands of an international body.

Just as long as they don't try anything stupid, does it really matter?