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HangFire 28-05-2005 21:37

Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article...id=155&tid=137
http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=4915

Basically, Intel is embedding Digital Rights Management stuff into their new dual-core processor Pentium D and accompanying 945 chipset, launching may 26th. DRM is supposidly supposed to allow copyright holders to prevent distribution of unathorized material from the motherboard rather than through the OS.


Problems with DRM include the fact that its filled with security holes, opening up a lot of great new ways for script kiddies to hit PCs with. And then of course theres the fundamental flaw that it allows for various corporations to have control over what people can and can't do with their PC.

Funny how Intel isn't announcing any of this and trying to keep it quiet. I'm glad I switched to AMD years ago.

stefanhendriks 28-05-2005 21:57

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
if intel keeps going on for this track, amd would be smart enough to skip drm and make it for coorporations or something ;) Then everybody switces to AMD because its 'optional' ;)

von Ryan 28-05-2005 22:02

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
I have an AMD Athlon XP 2000+ and I'm happy with it :D

Pierre-Marie Baty 29-05-2005 03:37

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
I place a bet: in less than 5 years, we'll need to mod our motherboards with modchips like gamers do with their playstations.

I've been seeing that coming for a long time.

Denny 29-05-2005 04:00

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Intel & Microsoft have been talking about DRM for awhile now. I just hope AMD doesn't follow suit, after the Prescott i pretty much gave up on Intel. I agree with PMB, pretty soon you won't be able to anything on a computer without it being restricted in one way or another. I mean heck they already tried to strangle backup technologies (Ugh....Induce Act)

Just try to remember though guys, nothings fool proof.

HangFire 29-05-2005 04:42

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty
I've been seeing that coming for a long time.

Well I sure didn't, this news article surprised me a lot. I always knew they'd do thing like to the OS and software, but I never suspected they'd muck around with people's hardware.

I'd better find a good soldering kit to buy with my next PC.

Exilibur 29-05-2005 11:10

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
well, as long as they don't force it by law, there will always be an alternative. Just like dvd players... most players sold here in denmark are codefree, because people, how stupid they might seem, actually have become aware of the advantages.

I think the same will happen with computers, as long as somebody are actually producing computerparts worth buying without code.

What might happen is that ie amd has two lines. one drm-line of processors and one line without drm. The drm processors might be sold til companies... who knows, ms could make a cheaper windows which requires drm or whatever, so companies actually would be interested in owning drm protected material.

so the generel point here is that I think we as private customers still will be able to choose whether we want drm or not in the future, because there will be a demand.

von Ryan 29-05-2005 14:02

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
One thing that can be noticed very easily is that the US create mountains of laws to protect copyright. They spend huge amounts of money trying to track down the 15-year-old girls downloading some No Doubt and Jay-Z songs. But they can only do this inside the US.
Meanwhile, in Europe, they pressure the governments to make similar laws. But Europe, as liberal as it is (comparing to the US), refuses to accept those laws, what I think is very healthy.
Brazil is "sitting in the fence", as we say. The laws are not as though as the US ones (and we suffer pressure from them because of that), but I don't think they can be considered liberal as well.
I just hope that when we fix the paper castle that Mercosul has become, we sign a cooperation treaty with the European Union (what has been in the plans of both blocks for a long time... Issues like agricultural subsidies in Europe are pending 9_9)... That way, I hope we can get some "liberalness" on that area here.

stefanhendriks 29-05-2005 20:05

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
drm won't make it. Simply because people don't want it. When people stop buying new stuff, and keep the old 'non-drm' stuff, they will stop producing it. The best way to hurt any company is through its sales...

EDIT:
btw, i thought mostly illegal software was used by small companies? I thought that was the major 'miss of money' instead of those mp3's and such. As if we don't have enough music formats to play music in. This world is getting nuts.

HangFire 29-05-2005 20:56

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Probably yes, the main revenue loss would be small firms using unliscenced software.

The entertainment/software industry has the tendency to bloat their so called "lost revenue" from copyright infringement.

They claim that 1 download = 1 lost sale, which is false. The vast majority of people who do this wouldn't have bought the music/software/whatever anyway.

But then of course being honest doesn't match they're buisness model. So.. they're either lying or just plain stupid.


Personally, I'm against "piracy", and of course it'd be best if it wasn't there, but its a problem that cannot be eliminated. The inane laws and technology that they create will only hurt their customers, people will always find ways to curcumvent the deterrents in place.

stefanhendriks 29-05-2005 22:06

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
the problem is, in a world where you cannot see each other and hide yourself from activities, it is hard to get hard evidence about 'criminal' activities on the net. What is 'criminal' anyway?

Like the ongoing discussions about P2P... its insane. P2P is just a protocol. Its as legal as you can get. The problem is its usage. What i don't understand, is that kind of usenet sharing. Even magazines simply guide you how to get 'illegal' software from usenet....

Another problem is, the internet is like our nature, it has no borders ;) Although you can 'filter' the internet , there is always a way to get passed that filter. (ie use a satelite connection ;))...

Denny 30-05-2005 04:45

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HangFire
The inane laws and technology that they create will only hurt their customers, people will always find ways to curcumvent the deterrents in place.

That is very true, but what they dont realise is by doing this they also turn legit customers into "criminals" as well because the technology effects even legit customers in some way (it's usually very inconvienient, such as product activation from MS) which causes them to go out and try to find work arounds for it (which is also "Illegal" according to the DMCA if i'm not mistaken)

That's just what i notice anyway, i could be wrong of course.

Zacker 30-05-2005 12:50

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Yet another reason to buy AMD.

Lethal 31-05-2005 13:20

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Yeah but knowing AMD, they have to have something that will match or be better than Intel. So I guess AMD will follow suit and build so 'better' protection system. Since when was a business company ever on your(consumer) side? They are there to make money and if pretending they are doing it for the people, usually its just because they will make alot of money from it, I guess Intel have been/being paid to incorporate the technogoly in to the new chips, (ps nothing wrong with intel chips, they are just meant for other things than gaming, like compiling the the games for instance)

Denny 31-05-2005 18:27

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
I don't know, remember AMD and Intel are rivals, if AMD finds out people won't buy Intel's because of this technology, they'll not even add it because people will then buy AMD instead. It's just good marketing and buisness strategy. And if AMD was "In It For The Money" don't you think they'd charge more that intel for their CPU's? From what i recall AMD is cheaper than Intel, but i'm not saying that people can't be bought off for the right price but your statement is a bit of a Hyperbole. Of course buisnesses listen to consumers, that's how you make a better product. AMD is pretty much up to par with Intel atm imho, so if they found out people were strongly against DRM, AMD could reject any DRM contracts offered and realease CPU's without DRM and they'd make a killing.

But again it's still too early to tell if AMD is gonna follow Intel and add DRM, so it could happen.

Pierre-Marie Baty 31-05-2005 18:51

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
IMO, there are WAY too many lobbies interested in DRM for that crap not to be forced by the law soon.

stefanhendriks 31-05-2005 19:00

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
huh, what do you mean? They are interested in getting laws forcing its usage? Nah, i don't see that happening. its a free market.

Denny 31-05-2005 19:27

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty
IMO, there are WAY too many lobbies interested in DRM for that crap not to be forced by the law soon.

Good point, there are a few but most don't even really know anything about the interworkings of piracy so the lobbies use terms that make it sound more serious. Take the Induce Act bill that Sen. Hatch tried to run through congress, he didn't say it was strictly to prevent copying of software and MP3's, he said it was to thwart child pornography and the like. Using that tactic congress thinks it's more serious because who doesn't know that child pornography is illegal and sick, so of course their gonna vote in favor of the bill to help stop that.

In any case, i could see DRM trying to be enforced by law, in fact that's pretty much what the Induce Act contained was so the RIAA and MPAA and the like can put restictions on hardware to prevent piracy.

I envy you Euro folks, you don't have to worry as much about U.S. restrictions and such. Some of the laws that we have are just plain lame, and how the RIAA has so much damn power is rediculous imho. I mean atm you could be more screwed being caught for piracy than molesting a teenager in the U.S., that in my mind is messed up. But that's a whole nother story altogether.

Pierre-Marie Baty 31-05-2005 19:43

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Don't envy us that much. Anything weird the US invents ends up in EU sooner or later. It's been a long time since the budget of international firms exceeds the budget of any reasonably sized state.

Europe is currently struggling against the copy protection majors, but they cease step after step. "Free market", yes Stefan. The battle is already lost, it's just a matter of time IMO. :(

Denny 31-05-2005 20:16

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty
The battle is already lost, it's just a matter of time IMO. :(

I agree!

HangFire 31-05-2005 21:54

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Maybe not in Canada, the entertainment industry cartels have very little power here. The only success they've ever had is adding a .25 cent corporate tax onto blank CD-Rs, +R, and +RW.

They've continually been trying to pull more stunts like that, but they are continually being denied.

Hell, its even "legal" to download copyrighted material, as long as you're not re-selling it. Well, its not exactly legal, its just that nobody has ever been prosecuted for such a thing.


Every time I read another article about some ludicrous and immoral new law in the States (Induce, Patriot, DMCA), I feel quite proud to live where I do.

Exilibur 31-05-2005 22:27

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
The battle isn't lost... it will first begin the day p2p becomes illegal.

digital copying is a much bigger case than it might already seem. To copy something almost effortless, almost expenseless, and enterely perfect is something that has never been possible before.

This means that the free market are becoming obsolete, and we'll soon end up with a market that is inconsistent with itself and the principles behind it.

let me quote Marx:
"At a certain stage of development, the material productive forces of society come into conflict with the existing relations of production or — this merely expresses the same thing in legal terms — with the property relations within the framework of which they have operated hitherto. From forms of development of the productive forces these relations turn into their fetters. Then begins an era of social revolution. The changes in the economic foundation lead sooner or later to the transformation of the whole immense superstructure."

Well... it's a theory at least... but the point is:

REVOLUTION! ;)

Pierre-Marie Baty 01-06-2005 00:30

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
lmao, you're optimist... comrade :D

botmeister 02-06-2005 09:16

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
If AMD does not add DRM capability, then the media that requires it simply won't run, so it won't matter to you if you buy AMD or not.

It however will matter to the people who actually want to run DRM enabled media, so these people will only buy DRM capable motherboards.

It also of course matters a great deal to the people who want to make thier media DRM encoded, since they won't bother with the format if there's not enough PC's to run it on. It's the classic chicken before egg problem.

IMO if DRM makes it, there will be a crack available within a couple of weeks. One thing that's noteworthy, is Intel seems to want to keep the details of the implementation a secret, which likely means it can be easily cracked and they know it.

Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips

"Conversely, Intel is heavily promoting what it calls "active management technology" (AMT) in the new chips as a major plus for system administrators and enterprise IT. Understood to be a sub-operating system residing in the chip's firmware, AMT will allow administrators to both monitor or control individual machines independent of an operating system.

Additionally, AMT also features what Intel calls "IDE redirection" which will allow administrators to remotely enable, disable or format or configure individual drives and reload operating systems and software from remote locations, again independent of operating systems. Both AMT and IDE control are enabled by a new network interface controller."

The more worrysome aspect of the "Trusted Computing" cartel, is that in theory only "trusted" computers will be able to speak to other computers on the net. ISP's could start preventing computers without DRM from connecting through their networks.

If you don't run an Approved(TM) OS, then you may be SOL unless there's a work around.

Lethal 02-06-2005 14:33

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Take a look around, the consumer is more than the home user. Big businesses and Universities and Colleges use pc's too. And I haven't seen a single pc with a AMD badge on it. So why do people persist that AMD is the popular chip, when it clearly isn't. All its good for atm is games and even then this new dual core scheme brings a new aspect to programing(main stream dual processing).
Like many other technologies this will blitz by. Did you know dell wanted to control all of their pc's they built to prevent people upgrading unless they upgrade with dell, or the part is used else where. (I have seen the tech reports for the intel machines with pcie before it was launched, I don't think it went ahead though since I haven't seen any reports that suggest the parts have been 'stamped'). Thank goodness for that.
I don't have a problem when someone is good at creating patches to work around anti-piracy, but when others download it and try to sell to people as the real thing is wrong. It just looks like the main companies don't trust end-users.

Zacker 02-06-2005 22:13

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
We do not persist that AMD is the most popular, which it is now. We do however agree on that AMD is the superior CPU choice.

Thirdeye 06-06-2005 19:16

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty
I place a bet: in less than 5 years, we'll need to mod our motherboards with modchips like gamers do with their playstations.

I've been seeing that coming for a long time.



wow very interesting any other predictions ??? PMB ???

Lethal 08-06-2005 00:12

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Not to worry all the thing is this:
The DRM technology referred to in a recent report was not a secret or an embedded DRM from Intel. Intel does support various content protection technologies including DTCP-IP technology, which is publicly offered by a number of companies in the industry to enable protected transport of compressed content within a home network.
Just don't ask me to explain any of it, I am no security expert :)

Pierre-Marie Baty 08-06-2005 03:32

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
I didn't know that - about the DTCP-IP. You're obviously well informed, may I ask you where do you take this from ?

Granted, Google gives me results, but what I'm wondering is why in hell this info didn't pass on popular news ?

@Thirdeye: ph34r my predictions, I've seldom been proven wrong ;)

botmeister 08-06-2005 06:56

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/05/1833241

'While Intel continues to work with the industry to support other content protection technologies, we have not added any unannounced DRM technologies in either the Pentium D processor or the Intel 945 Express Chipset family.'

stefanhendriks 08-06-2005 08:56

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
actually these 'trusted computer' technology frightens me more then the way computers work right now.

what if a virus/tool is out on the internet that allows any user on the planet to simply shut any computer down, or disallow hardware access? Its OS independant right? But it has to be 'controlled' from 'somewhere'...

Zacker 08-06-2005 13:11

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Intel does not have secret DRM in their 945 chipset:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23708

von Ryan 08-06-2005 19:05

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zacker
Intel does not have secret DRM in their 945 chipset:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23708

That's what they say ;)

botmeister 08-06-2005 22:29

Re: Intel quietly adds DRM to new chips
 
Read this
'Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

The modern age only started when Gutenberg invented movable type printing in Europe, which enabled information to be preserved and disseminated even if princes and bishops wanted to ban it. For example, when Wycliffe translated the Bible into English in 1380-1, the Lollard movement he started was suppressed easily; but when Tyndale translated the New Testament in 1524-5, he was able to print over 50,000 copies before they caught him and burned him at the stake. The old order in Europe collapsed, and the modern age began. Societies that tried to control information became uncompetitive, and with the collapse of the Soviet Union it seemed that democratic liberal capitalism had won. But now, TC has placed at risk the priceless inheritance that Gutenberg left us. Electronic books, once published, will be vulnerable; the courts can order them to be unpublished and the TC infrastructure will do the dirty work.

The Soviet Union attempted to register and control all typewriters and fax machines. TC similarly attempts to register and control all computers. The problem is that everything is becoming computerised. We have absolutely no idea where ubiquitous content control mechanisms will lead us.


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