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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Pierre-Marie Baty
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

WOW, you struck hard with your first email !!!

Mr President, IF EVER we manage to work more closely with Valve, are you SURE such entrances in the matter are the best thing to do ?



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Last edited by Pierre-Marie Baty; 13-02-2004 at 18:13.. Reason: fixed typo
  
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Onno Kreuzinger
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

Well, the 2nd qouted response is acctually pointing it out:
yes Valve does not guarantee 3rd party stuff, they have no contract to do so, but viewing valve forum and the release comment (.. bot should work now) i conclude 2 things (sry botman):

- they talk before knowing (eh bots where broken by this, the bot coders fixes for that fakeclient stuff is known for ages, they did not know about what they did and when they did so (B.U. is/was running RB for 1 month)
- a lot of COMMERCIAL customers are pissed (rental server ops shut down 1.6 server because no bots and mods, no customers on the server)

and this is not good in comercial terms, when MS would break office integration of lotus notes, hell would freeze (inkl. the german MS support dept).

I thing it's ok to rant on their lists, they use CS playerminutes and comunity intheir marketing so we can get pissed when they "lie" (say blantly wrong things) and the comunity runns into our forum and complains "eh _they_(Valve) fixed why did _you_(B.U, coders) broke it ?"...

So we knocked on the door they slamed, using our foot, but we knocked and did not kick, and did have good reason (see the RB forum it's crowded with people pissed about that ".. work again", and it's stefans forum and spare time ....).

i'd suggest making an Agora document/post (perhaps one like a wikki, each one shall edit and comment, to speed the process up) to find some common ground to present to valve as our point of view and intentions for our (your *g*) bot/mod coding. This shoudl make clear our side not what we want from them, so they can make up their mind if the want to support 3rd party stuff or not.

memed

[personal thought: i think one tactic could be to push them to decide: with us or against us; no middle way on our shoulders]

Last edited by Onno Kreuzinger; 13-02-2004 at 18:56..
  
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Pierre-Marie Baty
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

Be realistic, guys. We are, at the moment, in no position to "push them to decide" or request they do anything.

United Admins maybe.

Not us. Because we're 1 month old, and we've got things to prove, for a start. My own bot is not out yet, neither is JoeBot XP, neither is Realbot - officially. What is the proportion of servers running one of our products (yes, I am talking on a "commercial" grade, but that's the point) on the net ? Do you know it ? Ridiculously small.

So I'd suggest we keep our mouth shut... for now. I think it's the only wise thing to do.



Although I agree a common "manifesto" from the third party coders (including the guys at United Admins in the process) that we would send to Valve would be a track to explore. But I am certain that if we've got nobody to back us up, we'll be just laughed at.

It would be good to have the opinion of a professional, here - botman, for example, if you've got something to say or any comment to make, I'd be pleased to hear it



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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Onno Kreuzinger
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

pls. watch out this is a personal thought, no aim i'm folowing. for now getting our side clear is what i want. then valve can get a picture of what BU stands for.
In commercial terms the valve forum and the leak detector tells me that they can't afford to laugh right now. hl2 and CS:CZ are to be come like Duke Nuke'm Forever and selling GFX cards with vouchers for hl2 is stopped afaik, they are afraid some ppl. sell the vouchers for more than the (now outdated) gfx cards are sold for..
I will start a survey tonight on how many server do use bots (oh and then i will know if they run windws or linux). i will be on irc at around 01:30 and start doing network analyis on how to scan CS servers fastest.

cheers memed

p.s.
PMB, you are right, now we are nothing, but to be honest this forum looks very much like an intranet, a commercial one. so i'm in good faith that the ppl. in the council are upright enough to make a difference with the game.
p.p.s.
i respect UA, but the also leave out the endcustomer too often [there is no U.U. -> united users ... hmm]

Last edited by Onno Kreuzinger; 13-02-2004 at 20:00..
  
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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botmeister
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 14-02-2004

The fundamental problem in this case is simple: steam removed the beta test cycle. Valve deserves a whole lot more bitching than they are getting imo. You cannot remove a beta cycle and expect people to be happy about it. Had there been a beta release of the Feb 9 update, the plugin community would of quickly tested their plugins out on it, wrote to Valve about the problem(s), and found solutions in time for the official release. That is what happned prior to CS 1.6. I know because I was using their engine update betas and I had to make changes and research solutions. It worked, and it worked well. After steam came along - poof, no more beta and the instant CS 1.6 was officially released, nothing worked! Damn that pissed me off, and it pissed off a lot of other people. Now my servers are almost bone dry, and that means Valve had just lost a lot of customers.

Valve has to reintroduce the beta cycle or they will continue to face angry users and a shrinking customer base. A beta cycle is simply good for business. Having said that, the lack of a beta is not the only reason we're seeing less people playing games like CS, but that's another topic altogether.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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stefanhendriks
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 16-02-2004

Rofl, yes i struck hard, and i hope that got them thinking. I don't care if 'we' are 1 month old. I care that 'we' kept CS alive for MUCH LONGER then it probably was in the days that Bots where really a must... Man, i remember i had over 100 mails A DAY for this CS mod and bot!


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