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Re: C4 detection bug
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dor123
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Warning Re: C4 detection bug - 31-07-2008

OK, here's the thing.
I tested it and it seems that even if the bomb is hidden, as long as most of the bomb is shown the bot would probably be able to locate and pick it up. But there were few places in de_dust2 that I was able to hid the bomb deep enough in the wall so most of it wasn't shown and the bot could NOT locate and pick it up.
As you can see in the pictures, the bot was not able to find the bomb in picture "HalfLife03", "HalfLife04" and "HalfLife07".
In HalfLife08 the bomb was well hidden but the bot somehow was still able to pick it up.

It's pretty hard dropping the bomb on "slope" floors so part of it will sink in the ground so I couldn't test that but i'm pretty sure they always pick it up when it's on those "slope" floors.
i must admit i didn't gave the bot alot of time but he was very close to the bombs in those events and even looked at it sometimes so i'm pretty sure i'm right. i'll test it again just to be 100% positive about this
oh, and you need to wait few seconds to picture to load after you click on it.
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dor123

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Re: C4 detection bug
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Sc0Rp
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 31-07-2008

Thx Storm, lol.
I was starting to think Kwo understood my message wrong.
Everybody makes mistakes

The bot was able to pick up the bomb in picture HalfLife08 cause there is a camp-waypoint in the corner where the bomb is located.
So the bot picked it up by achieving the goal-camp-waypoint, not achieving the bomb-pick-up.
If the place has no waypoint or waypoint-path, they fail to detect the bomb ( if it is not fully visible )
I'm sure of it they also can't when it comes to the slope floors.
You probably dropped the bomb by coincidence on a waypointed place.
Yeah I said 5 minutes roundtime but normally the bot would be able to pick up the bomb in about 10 sec after they come near to it.
Thx for testing.
p.s.: It is not necessary to drop the bomb in a corner like you did in your pictures. Even a straight wall is enough to let the bug appear.


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Last edited by Sc0Rp; 31-07-2008 at 16:16..
  
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Re: C4 detection bug
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Ancient
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 31-07-2008

Well, isn't this a good thing?
Sometimes when I play with humans they can't locate the bomb, however, they try by using their mini-gps radar.

Also those pictures are pretty big in size.
May I recomend using xat.com Jpeg optimizer?

Anyway, isn't it a rare case where a bomb is mostly hidden in a wall?
or even in a slope where you had it?

I normally see a bot with the bomb running to a bombsite rather than camping in a corner, however, a straight wall is better to imagine where a dead bot might have had the bomb thrown.

Also, scorp mentioned the need of a waypoint near by to help the bot locate the bomb, well I'm sure it is needed, but I'm not quite sure you need a waypoint near by to have the bot(s) know where it is.

Also, I think when a bomb was dropped, the CTs were to camp near it. I thought I remember seeing that, might have been a YaPB thing.


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Re: C4 detection bug
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dor123
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 01-08-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
Well, isn't this a good thing?
Sometimes when I play with humans they can't locate the bomb, however, they try by using their mini-gps radar.

Also those pictures are pretty big in size.
May I recomend using xat.com Jpeg optimizer?

Anyway, isn't it a rare case where a bomb is mostly hidden in a wall?
or even in a slope where you had it?

I normally see a bot with the bomb running to a bombsite rather than camping in a corner, however, a straight wall is better to imagine where a dead bot might have had the bomb thrown.

Also, scorp mentioned the need of a waypoint near by to help the bot locate the bomb, well I'm sure it is needed, but I'm not quite sure you need a waypoint near by to have the bot(s) know where it is.

Also, I think when a bomb was dropped, the CTs were to camp near it. I thought I remember seeing that, might have been a YaPB thing.
I'm 100% with you exept for the "isn't it good" part and i'll try using xat.com next time .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0Rp
p.s.: It is not necessary to drop the bomb in a corner like you did in your pictures. Even a straight wall is enough to let the bug appear.
I tried it with straight wall and it didn't quite apear am i confused?
No wait, I probably didn't do it well I only tried once on an VERY easy to locate wall...


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Re: C4 detection bug
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Ancient
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 01-08-2008

Well, its not that I was saying that it was good that the dropped bomb couldn't be found.
I was trying to refer to the bomb not being found or picked up once-in-awhile.

I've seen human players have sight of the bomb, but do not try to fetch for fear for a CT camping near by. Therefore, he chose a different route so they could see all positions surrounding the dropped bomb. It's one of those things, a human could process, rather than a bot. Also I've seen human players camp near a dropped bomb and not pick it up right away. It's one of those concious awarnesses that humans have aquired over millions of years.

Anyway, snice I'm going off track, a bomb not picked up all the time seems fine to me, and more human-like. I guess a goal for AI Developers are to make a bot so well, that the humans playing with them, can't realize they are bots. And so far CS Bot and Brothers in Arms are closest.


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Re: C4 detection bug
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dor123
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Wink Re: C4 detection bug - 01-08-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
Well, its not that I was saying that it was good that the dropped bomb couldn't be found.
I was trying to refer to the bomb not being found or picked up once-in-awhile.

I've seen human players have sight of the bomb, but do not try to fetch for fear for a CT camping near by. Therefore, he chose a different route so they could see all positions surrounding the dropped bomb. It's one of those things, a human could process, rather than a bot. Also I've seen human players camp near a dropped bomb and not pick it up right away. It's one of those concious awarnesses that humans have aquired over millions of years.

Anyway, snice I'm going off track, a bomb not picked up all the time seems fine to me, and more human-like. I guess a goal for AI Developers are to make a bot so well, that the humans playing with them, can't realize they are bots. And so far CS Bot and Brothers in Arms are closest.
Yeah I thought that's what you ment by "isn't it good?". You're absolutly right. It can't be found all the time right? There must be at least one thing that is human-like in any bot so, *poof* and there you go! You got yourself a human-like thingy with PODBot too! Isn't that great?

After all, as Ancient said, it's pretty rare that the bots are dropping the bomb in those hard-to-find corners.
Even if it does happen, who cares if your enemies (if you are a CT) can't find the bomb and plant it? Besides, you could always pick it up yourself if you are a T and bots can't handle themselves.


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Re: C4 detection bug
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Ancient
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 01-08-2008

Well, it's not to say: that this isn't a bug, and avoid the issue completely.

I don't know if this would be an easy fix or not, maybe give a demo of this bug?


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Last edited by Ancient; 01-08-2008 at 09:12..
  
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Re: C4 detection bug
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Sc0Rp
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 01-08-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by dor123 View Post
After all, as Ancient said, it's pretty rare that the bots are dropping the bomb in those hard-to-find corners.
Even if it does happen, who cares if your enemies (if you are a CT) can't find the bomb and plant it? Besides, you could always pick it up yourself if you are a T and bots can't handle themselves.
You can't pick up a bomb when you are dead and then the round can end with a bunch of stupid-walking-around-Tbot's desparately looking for the C4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
Also, scorp mentioned the need of a waypoint near by to help the bot locate the bomb, well I'm sure it is needed, but I'm not quite sure you need a waypoint near by to have the bot(s) know where it is.
No that wasn't exactly what I meant so then you would have to put waypoints all over every possible wall/crate/object where the bomb can partly fall in to, once it is dropped.

@Kwo: actually the same goes for a planted bomb too, when it's planted and it isn't fully visible after then, CT bots will never be able to locate.


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Re: C4 detection bug
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dor123
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 02-08-2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0Rp View Post
You can't pick up a bomb when you are dead and then the round can end with a bunch of stupid-walking-around-Tbot's desparately looking for the C4.
but sitll, what are the odds that they will drop it in a so hard-to-find place - only once in awhile so I really don't see the problem if it happens once in a bit...


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Re: C4 detection bug
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Sc0Rp
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Default Re: C4 detection bug - 04-08-2008

It happens more than you think or than you experience.
Even if it occurs not often, it remains a bug.
T bots must be able to detect a dropped C4 and CT bots must be able to detect a planted C4 ( all partly visible )


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