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Re: bots are too easy
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  (#11)
KWo
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 20-10-2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by person135
btw, last build 15 level 100 is equivalent to what level of build 16?
I have no idea. I don't have such calculations. You need to compare Your-self these 2 versions.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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CS1.6
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 03-11-2006

v3.16b

useless for me. I told you dont make them shoot sharper and you make the bots even harder!!! whatever, it's your bot but i switched back to 16a. weird shoot patterns (sudden ultra precise bursts) and an overall unrealistic shooting accuracy and crazy hit/miss patterns. They don't hit a thing but all the sudden 3 or 4 shots and the shots hit perfectly and you drop f*ing dead without time to respond even.

go on and make the ultimate cheater-bots. actually everyone has done that, thats nothing new. the one and only real humanlike bot for cs is zbot, the czero bot. thats some AI right there!

tactics!..teamplay!..and realistic in his shooting skills!


That were some real developers back then. They understood what creating AI is really all about and the sense of the whole idea!

Unfortunately cs bots are all based on a false understandig of creating AI. The idea behind those is to create some game-bot that can match the opponents aimbot..and not to act and have skills (and weaknesses) like a real human..as they ideally should.


The question for an AI creator in this place here is, does he want to create something humanlike or just some bot for the need of some kids cheating on publics. I'd say that is his decision but tells much about the Level at which he does his profession.

I doubt that anyone who creates willingly an unrealistic AI (cs bot in this case - that shoots and plays unnaturally), someday will be the father of the next generation (Robot) AI in a huge Corporation!

Lets not talk about this or start a discussion. Theres nothing to say. Every developer knows very well if his bot is made for some cheaters or actually acts and shoots at a realistic, humanlike level. Unfortunately i fear someone is going to start a discussion nevertheless in order to digg some dirt on the truth.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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person135
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 03-11-2006

ur really making me mad here!!!
wtf are you talking about!!

first of all, if podbot is too hard, change the level! WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE TOO STUPID TO LOWER THE LEVEL IF THE BOTS ARE TOO HARD!!!

second of all, ZBOT IS ONE OF THE WORST BOTS FOR CS! end of conversation. zbot is crap. the only thing good is that they "talk" using sound messages


@KWo: don't listen to him, apparently, he doesn't know how to lower the level of the bots or switch botaim types. if he knew how to do these stuff, he wouldn't complain that the bots are too hard. Plus, I bet that this guy is a really really bad cs player.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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KWo
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 03-11-2006

I did a little match play 5 podbot mm V3B16b (all skill 100) against Czero bots (all with expert hardiest skill). The result - CZERO bots were owning podbot mm everytime (no round won by podbot mm). Sometimes podbot mm was able to kill 1 or 2 CZERO bots. Conclusion - CZERO bots in expert skill are more unrealistic than podbot mm. And You don't need to use skill (100) of pb mm - use for example skill (80) - to see if they are aiming more human-like for You.
Please don't start flaming each other because I'll warn both of You.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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Sintra
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 08-11-2006

Every once in a while I come here looking for updates for podbot_mm, and I was delighted to check out the changelog and see that the difficulty had been increased.
So, I get the new dll and paste it in my podbot folder, load up steam and play.
And then I was shocked... the bots are easier than before.

They used to strafe a lot and pull of some good shots. Now, when they see me, they'll stop and aim. Well, yeah, maybe their aim is better, but they're standing still, really asking for a headshot.

I always play with godlike bots (100 skill), and will usually do a score based on a 4:1 ratio. But with this version I easily went for a 20:1 score.

On the other hand, I've been browsing the forum and it seems some people are complaining that the bots are hard...
Different play styles, or is there any other required file to update besides the podbot_mm.dll?
I had the v3.15c version before updating to v3.16b.

Any ideas?

EDIT: after increasing pb_aim_spring_stiffness_x and pb_aim_spring_stiffness_y, on dust2 I went back to my 4:1 ratio. Bots definitely have better aim, but they take too long aiming (well, not that long, but enough to give me an unfair advantage). They also stop strafing over greater distances, prefering instead to stop and aim, whereas they will engage in some strafing (and even jumping!) at closer ranges.
Overall, very good, best ever!

Last edited by Sintra; 09-11-2006 at 00:04..
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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person135
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 09-11-2006

now that you mention it, I haven't really noticed that big of a difference in difficulty between b15c and b16b. Also, I didn't notice that big of a difference in camping amount. And, yeah, before they did strafe a lot, and I mean a lot. But I think I should edit the bots skills again.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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Ancient
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 10-11-2006

Straffing alot is normal so the bot can follow waypoints and try to avoid being hit or killed.

I strafe alot. Proud of it.

The bots were harder when I changed the
pb_aim_target_anticipation_ratio to 22.1
And it is tougher than normal (for me).

Anyway things are changing even if it's little by little.


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Re: bots are too easy
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serik
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 04-01-2007

well... this being my first post here,
let me say that I've been reading what "all yuz' " have to say about the difficulty level of the bots...

Let me say that this bots (no ofence , you did a terrific job ) can't even shoot

I let everything as default, entered the game and went in front of an bot... IT JUST LOOKED AT ME, went left to right but IT DIDN't EVEN FIRE... i mean "wtf" ...

now seriously, is there an way to make them "GODLIKE" ... I want 'em to kill me just when i buy a weapon at the round start....
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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KWo
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 04-01-2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by serik View Post
I let everything as default, entered the game and went in front of an bot... IT JUST LOOKED AT ME, went left to right but IT DIDN't EVEN FIRE... i mean "wtf" ...

It was issue with beta V3B16d/e . For V3B16f it should be OK. What is the version You are using? If You are not sure You can check the version this way - write in console:
meta list
It should return You all mm plugins (with version numbers) You have installed.
  
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Re: bots are too easy
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serik
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Default Re: bots are too easy - 04-01-2007

10x, knew about meta list

I'm using 3.0B16f ... any suggestions ?
  
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