Golden Dunk

[nedd3h]

Hello!

I like to request FritzBot support for the map Golden Dunk.
I'm unsure if they would work with jump-pads though.
http://ned.theoldergamers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104


This is an amazingly fun map!

[CrapShoot]

yeah, i don't think they could use the jump pads very well. would be a fun map though.

[_Dented-Fate_]

Can't you make it so this bot goes on this pad that bot goes on that pad and give them directions so they don't gib themselves intentionally?

[TomTom]

i don't think assigning the bots to a pad is the issue. The big problem is getting the bots through the hoop. They would lose focus if they came under fire (very likely being so exposed), and even if that didn't happen they don't learn to deal with the physics so the waypointing would have to be perfect for speed, gravity, angle just to give them a chance. And in the rare likelyhood they miss and survive they would be unable to get to the what they view as the next node and so would be distracted for a few seconds.
OTOH There might be a partial waypoint possible to fill in a few roles (build/destroy the CP, plant mines, camp, roam) so that a couple of humans could play the steal and delivers)

BTW what is with the ping-pong hi-wire in the middle of the map?

Gave it a real quick test the bots go staight up and come straight back down SPLAT. Furthermore even though no steal-delivers are defined the other bots will try to pick up the dropped gold now sitting on the jump pad, bounce and die. COMIC really. Therefore I am not so sure that even a partial waypoint would be worth it except for comic relief.
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Update:
OPPs MY BAD I forgot to put the roam actions in the hoops. I'll keep evaluating the bots success rate and post the results later.
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Final Update
While it is possible it is really rare for the bots to succeed in jumping. they tend to twist midair and then straight down SPLAT. Also the AI problem that was seen in baserace over bots with crates running to get another dropped crate mean that the bots will switch even a hair away from their jump pad to go pick up the other crate (which they can't). And since most dropped crates will land on jump pads the bots are approaching those jump pads from the wrong direction/angle. So even if they are not carrying a crate the pick up is near impossible and SPLAT. Add to that the effect of fighting mid air and going off nodes for healing, fighting, pickup and accidentally crossing a jump pad... I even tried lowering gravity (the only thing I did not try was an arc of mid-air nodes.) There are really too many problems un-solvable IMHO.

[nedd3h]

Thanks for trying

[TomTom]

Kept at it just to evaluate best way to handle a jump for experimental purposes only. The Arc of nodes in a non-fight environment is definitely a plus over the minimum direct connect. I'll try it next in a fight environment.

[nedd3h]

One thing to consider is that most humans don't get through the hoop most of the time... including me LOL

[TomTom]

Well the bots are easy to kill in the arc, and of the 6 ways in to the hoop only 2 are easy, the others seem sensitive to initial conditions. Also the engr bots I am testing do forget to fight when they are carrying.

[CrapShoot]

maybe funnel em in with playerclips. too many gold crates is still a problem though.

[TomTom]

Yes the ai problem is quite comic

The other problem is how to make bots know areas to avoid. In this case the jump pads need to be fenced off from the wrong angles that bots will approach in fighting and trying to grab dropped items. In other maps like MML_church how to prevent the bots in the rafters jumping down when they come under fire. My idea would be to add exclusion planes to discourage movement through or into them. The planes would be defined by exclusion lines connected at vertices. This is a method used in routing systems like PCB routers. The 2D concept could also be extended to 3D volumes. Maybe a future game ( ETQW? ) will have something like this to instill fear in the bot persona.
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2 on 2 bots only tied 3-3 now into overtime (none got to the jump pads yet)
- axis won 5-3

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had a thought but my internet searches aren't leading me to what i need.
My thought would be to trim the dropped item time so that the gold crates disappear from the map very fast to kill the bot scrum. There appear to be some other mods that have addressed this idea (DeGeneration...). so far I have not found a cvar or file where the time is defined. I would not expect it hard coded in the WET_source but what file has it I don't know. Maybe Mal would have an idea..........