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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Pierre-Marie Baty
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 11-02-2004

mass suicide ???

o_O WTF

what if you try to put their FL_FAKECLIENT flag back ?


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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botmeister
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 11-02-2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty
right.


[BTW I'm still waiting for your reply to that email discussion we started a while ago ]
.. and this latest fiasco is the reason why I must get on it! Expect something from me soon.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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botmeister
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 11-02-2004

Well I tried out the new podbot_mm.dll which has the fakeclient bit set and the bots don't all die at round start, but then they hardly ever buy weapons, and other weird things will happen. I'd like to know what was changed because nothing works as it used to before this update.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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stefanhendriks
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 12-02-2004

i see on the hlcoders list there are other troubles too , like removing entities will crash the server and such.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Terran
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 12-02-2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by botmeister
Well I tried out the new podbot_mm.dll which has the fakeclient bit set and the bots don't all die at round start, but then they hardly ever buy weapons, and other weird things will happen. I'd like to know what was changed because nothing works as it used to before this update.
I've tried this too but assigned those problems to my lack of experience with this kind of stuff
  
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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botmeister
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 12-02-2004

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanhendriks
i see on the hlcoders list there are other troubles too , like removing entities will crash the server and such.
We're back to when CS first came out and the bots stopped working. So what did Valve do this time to mess us up? Looks like we'll have to do some debugging once again.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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stefanhendriks
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

Well, we are back to CS when it first came when speaking about the BIT flags. But the new CS dll also has some faster lookup code on Entities.

If i understand correct the CS DLL now handles the entities list instead of the engine. So instead of doing an engine call , the CS can directly access this list itself.

Anyway, here a quote from the HLCoders mail list:

Quote:
Entities are now cached inside of CS rather using the engine lookup routines (because they are too expensive to use so often). If you remove entities from the world that CS knows about it will cause it to crash (so don't).

> -----Original Message-----

> From: hlcoders-admin@list.valvesoftware.com

> [
mailto:hlcoders-admin@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of

> tcwhome@cox.net

> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 9:59 PM

> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com

> Subject: [hlcoders] Steam changes 2-9

>

> Does anyone know exactly what was changed in Steam as of February 9th?

> Old routines I was using with metamod on Counter-Strike are no longer

> working.

>

> For example, I can no longer dynamically add/create

> info_player_deathmatch/info_player_spawn (I get "Bad entity in

> IndexOfEdict()" after spawning a few times). If I remove weaponboxes

> (and their contents), the game crashes at round change...

>

> I suspect the "Optimized entity lookup routines" thing is what has

> brought my metamod plugin to a screeching halt. It's as if the engine

> is caching what entities are valid and then getting angry at me for

> changing them.

>

> -----David "BAILOPAN" Anderson

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,

> please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders

>

>

_______________________________________________

To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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stefanhendriks
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

I found this:
my bot does not detect NEW ROUND anymore! I bet this also explains why POD does not buy new stuff. THis also explains my mass suicide when issuing any 'killall' command and such. When things do not get initialized on round start and such, we are seriously fucked.

I don't know how you detect a new round, but i have posted mine in the programming forum.


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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Pierre-Marie Baty
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

This discussion also means that our MapHack/MapEdit plugins, and generally everything that uses the FL_KILLME flag won't work anymore.

*boiling one degree hotter*



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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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stefanhendriks
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Default Re: Interesting update to CS today - 13-02-2004

Here is my mail to the HL Coders list:

Quote:
Although with good intentions to fix stuff for bots, Valve did it again and broke bot support.

I see the bit flags are now working again, thats very nice. Although it does not matter anymore for any bot author on CS as we adapted our own fix a loooong time ago. Nevertheless we switch back to ensure we are not doing things that the engine does not like.

I also see my bots do not detect a new round anymore, i have done this

via:

edict_t* pfnFindEntityByString(edict_t *pEdictStartSearchAfter, const char *pszField, const char *pszValue) {

// Counter-Strike - New Round Started

if (strcmp(pszValue,"info_map_parameters") == 0) {

// New round started.

Game.SetNewRound(true);

Game.SetRoundTime(gpGlobals->time);

}

RETURN_META_VALUE (MRES_IGNORED, NULL);

}

This worked all th etime, it worked for CS 1.5 and CS 1.6. My question

is:

Is there a new way to detect round start? Is there a message sent or is there some other method to know the new round has started? Since the new Steam update i am trown back into fixing a bug again that is not even mine.

Suggestion:

- When releasing fixes for bots, TEST THEM FIRST.

Wait, let me rephrase that:

- When releasing ANYTHING, TEST IT FIRST (and ofcourse, with everything. Run a bot server, run a metamod server)

I don't mind waiting a bit longer if i am sure the next STEAM updates do actually do what they claim to do.

-Stefan

http://realbot.bots-united.com
Here is a reaction (from botman).

Quote:
S. Hendriks wrote:

> Suggestion:

> - When releasing fixes for bots, TEST THEM FIRST.

>

> Wait, let me rephrase that:

> - When releasing ANYTHING, TEST IT FIRST (and ofcourse, with

> everything. Run a bot server, run a metamod server)

Actually, it's not really Valve's responsibility to test a server with Metamod, AdminMOD, AMX, bots or any other type of plugin. Valve makes no guarantee that a new release won't break third party applications (although they try not to do this when they can). Valve obviously can't test each new release with EVERY single third party plugin, stats package, or server management tool that's out there. Some stuff will break. It's up to the plugin, stat, or server management author to check out their third party tool with each release and fix any problems that might arise. You can usually contact someone at Valve directly if you can't figure out what the problem is (or if no one else in the community can figure out what the problem is).

Since there has never been any well defined interface between MODs and plugins (in terms of how the MOD and plugin interacts with each other), whenever the MOD code changes how something behaves, it's likely to break some plugins that are "leaching" on to that data. Since not every plugin author handles the same problem the same way, some plugins will break and others will be uneffected.

This is just a fact of life if you are hooking into a MOD without that MOD's knowledge or consent. If a MOD team wanted to REALLY nasty, they could change how every single function was implemented each time a new version of the MOD was released making it very difficult for plugins to keep updated and working with new releases. Luckily, none of the Valve's MODs have ever done this, but occasionally performances changes in the MOD code effect how things are done and require plugins to be modified to work properly.
I also had replied on that:
Quote:
I do see your point, but i don't really agree with that. I understand that changes can break things, but fixes should not! Let me paste here exactly what the STEAM Update says:

- Cstrike FL_FAKECLIENT fix (3rd-party bots should work fine in cstrike once more)

This is partially true! FL_FAKECLIENT is fixed, Yet bots do NOT work fine at all.

Btw, i think Valve CAN test their product with the most used programs out there. Simply run a PODBot server , launch it, add bots, run for 5 minutes. Done. If this was done before release STEAM then the bug was already found (so you can see for yourself the statement 'bots should work fine' is not true) and so the statement should never be made in the first place.

Don't get me wrong , i am not trying to bash Valve at all, as i apreciate their hard work, yet sometimes i get frustrated with things like this. This is not the first time that happened, and i never said a thing on the list before... This time however, i did report it and i hope something will be done about it.

On Bots-United we are discussing possibilites on an information channel with Valve? IF Valve is interested in such a thing we can provide support from that scene and make sure things work, and keep on working with every release.

-Stefan



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