New Waypointer

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

No problem. After all, waypointing was never your #1 business (I don't mean in terms of quality (for quality was sure top-notch!) but in terms of priority, eh? ). I think tasks are split up quite well the way it is now: You make maps (which you can and I can't), and I make waypoints (which both of us can). Dunno if I can call myself "as good as you", but from the feedback I've received so far I'd at least say that I'm not too bad...
Maybe I can nag either biohazerd87 or Huntakillaz into the category I'd like to have for a partner, hehe... peace, guys. Don't take me too seriously...

@biohazerd87: You never saw a _bc map because we never made one. You know, modifying entities can be done on the server, whereas all clients can play with the default bsp. Thus we (mainly Austin, that is, for he was the only real 1337 guy involved) weren't sure what to do:
1) Make _bc maps, thus causing confusion and forcing everyone (no matter if admin or player) to d/l these new versions
2) Make a little program (Austin) in order to create external entity manipulation files which could be read by a server on map start - this would have rendered making changed BSPs unnecessary - and having to negotiate with mappers from all over the world, too. Interested ppl could have d/l'ed a little cfg file thingy from here, and zap!
3) Leave it all as it is, because at that time the new button code came into reach, and it looked like two of the biggest concerns (buttons & lifts) would finally work without changing anything in the map. Unfortunately, though... *sigh*
That's more or less how I remember it. No warranties...

[biohazerd87]

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

i think you cant say yer "as good as " someone with 4 years of waypointing exp if you've waypointed one map.

its cute tho

plus ill do the map you waypointed in about 1 hour with less mistakes.....no map is hard to waypoint.

T Wrecks said "need a Partner"

sorry dude im not much on it like i was a while back because of my mapping things.......i have a shitload of creative energy right now that must be released or i will go nuts....please bear with me

Never said I was "better" never said the job was hard or easy never I could waypoint faster with less mistakes I am just interested in waypointing if you where overloaded but apparently you're "protecting" your job as a WPer.
Oh and by the way
"i have a shitload of creative energy right now that must be released"
thats cute man real cute.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

You got him wrong, biohazerd. He's not "protecting his job as a WPer", he just said that he doesn't have time to waypoint anything right now 'cuz he's busy putting his energy into mapping & other projects.
And why do you say "I never said I was better"? Nobody accused you of saying that - or do I need new glasses? No use getting this thread drift into a tone I don't really like to hear - from anyone...

[biohazerd87]

I just wanted to help not get him to make waypoints. I was saying if Soulfather had a lot todo and couldn't get to it all I would gladly help. Thats all I am sayin

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Hmmm... I'm a bit confused now concerning who has said what and why and with which intention and so on, but I suppose it wouldn't have led anywhere useful anyway, so why don't we just go back to topic?
I'll be looking forward to the next stuff you post - haven't seen the latest changes yet...

[biohazerd87]

Found some problems. See pics for details. And I just removed the button waypoints.


PICS.ZIP

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Yup... I agree.
- Pathway: Right, this would be a nice connection. I focused on a clean access to the stairs for bots running parallel to the wall w/ the doors; didn't touch the WPs where you stood, though. But it's a good idea to add that connection.
- Stacking: Hm. WP prob or bot prob? Besides, did that cause a lasting problem (bots stuck forever), or did they go back to normal after some seconds?
- Too close: Right you are. Once again, this is one area I didn't touch. Maybe rewaypointing the main hall would be a good idea?
- The other "too close" shots: All correct, and I think the the one in tooclose3 was probably my bad. The other ones, however, are from spots I didn't touch. I didn't mention them in my screenies, either, because there were more obvious examples of identical problems elsewhere in the map.
Well, go ahead and fix them - and maybe there are more connections like this left, too. If all these are cleaned up, the bots will navigate much more fluently. This is slowly becoming a really good WP set, and in the end we'll get it to become something even SoUlFaThEr wouldn't say no to. And I guarantee you that after doing this for 20-30 maps, you'll be capable of avoiding all these little inaccuracies right from the start, plus you will become a lot faster...
Btw, is this the first map you ever really / seriously waypointed? Just curious...

[biohazerd87]

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

Yup... I agree.
- Pathway: Right, this would be a nice connection. I focused on a clean access to the stairs for bots running parallel to the wall w/ the doors; didn't touch the WPs where you stood, though. But it's a good idea to add that connection.
- Stacking: Hm. WP prob or bot prob? Besides, did that cause a lasting problem (bots stuck forever), or did they go back to normal after some seconds?
- Too close: Right you are. Once again, this is one area I didn't touch. Maybe rewaypointing the main hall would be a good idea?
- The other "too close" shots: All correct, and I think the the one in tooclose3 was probably my bad. The other ones, however, are from spots I didn't touch. I didn't mention them in my screenies, either, because there were more obvious examples of identical problems elsewhere in the map.
Well, go ahead and fix them - and maybe there are more connections like this left, too. If all these are cleaned up, the bots will navigate much more fluently. This is slowly becoming a really good WP set, and in the end we'll get it to become something even SoUlFaThEr wouldn't say no to. And I guarantee you that after doing this for 20-30 maps, you'll be capable of avoiding all these little inaccuracies right from the start, plus you will become a lot faster...
Btw, is this the first map you ever really / seriously waypointed? Just curious...

Yes the bots get Jammed forever. I think it may be caused cause your waypoints have a crouch right next to the railing and the jump waypoint goes over the top of it. So when bots try to jump they get wedged on the guy crouching.

[biohazerd87]

I fixed the gay door problems, thanks to Austin(woot woot), I just removed the buttons altogether removed one of the doors cause it wasn't doing anything when there is another door like 1 foot away and made the other door swing.
if you want to check it out
here is the map and waypoints
clue_4_bot.zip

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Ah, that's a good modification. Stupid buttons!

Your WPs also look considerably better in most places. You got the camp Wp on that ledge in the main hall waypointed, as I see. The way back down is nice as well, no HP lost for bots. Connections through doors have disappeared.
All in all, that's pretty nice waypoint file now. There are still many places where a connection cuts a corner too closely, but that's about it. On such a chaotically built map, bots are bound to bump into obstacles anyway.
You have definitely improved this WP a lot, and it ought to work well now. However, I can tell you still don't use apmd settings or radius manipulations, or maybe once in 20 cases where it would be good to use. They don't bite, play around with them, too. Once you've gotten accustomed to using these two features, you will like them.