V1_rocket_b2 request waypoint

[TomTom]

Update: Still working on it when I can xgzoq. Dealing with the truly bad weather this fall is reducing the time I have to work on these waypoints.

- I have fixed the path to the radar mg42nest construct.

- And I have been testing positions for alt-roams for routes. This allows me to check other difficult paths (e.g. getting on top of the fuel bunker roof). In static testing using alt-roams at the rocket fuel room door levers work well. However the success rate will depend on whether they are fired upon (bots stop following routes if they fight along the way). I expect the axis will be more successful in closing the door than the allies will be in opening it because the axis can get to the inside switch protected from being attacked.



RESPAWN DISTRIBUTION:
I have been testing positions for team_WOLF_objectives so we can have the teams split their respawns in 2-3 places. Best combinations so far;

Case 1: When Axis have the depot flag and Allies have the main entrance(gate) spawn.

For a respawn of 12, 1/2 the axis respawn at the depot, 1/3rd at the ramp bunker and 1/6th at the radar near the fuel. Or for a respawn of 4 50%(2) at the ramp bunker 25%(1) at the depot and 25%(1) at the Radar near the fuel. (Specifically in a respawn the 1st 2nd 5th 12th players/bots are at ramp bunker, 4th 10th at radar and 3rd 6th 7th 8th 9th 11th at the depot) Since 4 bots respawning is much more likely than 12 I think this is a good mix. Unfortunately I can't make the bots choose camps based upon where they respawn.

Case 2: When axis lose the depot flag to allies

For a respawn of 12, 1/2 the Axis respawn at the ramp bunker and 1/2 at the radar. For a respawn of 4, the axis respawn 75% at the radar and 25% at the ramp bunker. (specifically 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 9th and 12th are at the Radar and 3rd 5th 6th 8th 10th 11th are at ramp bunker)

I still have to test splitting the allies between the main entrance and depot spawn.



Timeframe: I will not have any WIP updates this weekend but will try to get one for next weekend if the weather quiets down.

[TomTom]

OK decided to throw in everything in WIP 0.03 to test out whether it is stable.
That is there are 23 scripted entities, 648/1024 nodes, 139/256 actions, 11/16 action tests and just 7 routes so far. I have not had time for extensive testing so I would appreciate being informed if anybody experiences memory problems on older machines with less RAM.

Vehicle notes:
You may note some allied bots standing around or going in circles behind the carrier. That is because I chose to turn off the vehicle support only at one place currently. Before the bridge I want the Axis to damage the carrier and own the area around it so I leave the vehicle active. The side effect is the allied engrs will likely repair it before finishing the bridge and other classes may stand behind it taking a break from fighting. When the carrier finally arrives at the depot I do not immediately turn on the steal but give each team 10 seconds to regroup. So I leave the vehicle on for 15 seconds while it unloads to keep the bots happy, with the side effect that the allied bots may run in circles behind it during those 15 seconds (I may decrease these delays later). Oh and by the way I have surrounded the fuelcan with a fake brush so you human cvops don't steal the fuel too early and ruin the bots fun. I know it is Christmas and it would have been nice to wrap it in a box model but I tried that and the fuel did a David Copperfield when the box was removed.

Other notes:
There may be a few "no valid goals" msgs still (saw none for the past three games). There are a few more camp actions that can be added but I wanted to leave them out till I got other opinions. You will note that there is a strong ramp defense/flag offense by the axis making it hard to deliver the fuel, but not too hard to steal it. The bot sight is a bit high IMO for the deliver but I don't want to decrease it much or it will affect the play at the start of the match. I have done no campaign nor balance testing yet (balance likely favors Axis).

That is all the presents you will get from me this week so ...

Merry Xmas to y'all and good fight.

[xgzoq]

Happy New Years,TomTom!
Doing test many times with 20bots or 24bots even 28bots,i have never experienced memory problems or others,but so far i can't promise whether it will be happened on other one's machines.

During test on matching around main entrance i have still notice some issues
Allies side:at beginning,most of allies escort the tank while few ones go to water entrance.That's fine.
but when tank near the bridge which not built yet,more prefer chosing back path and less maybe go ahead.allies engineers outside hurry to dynmaite main entrance when biridge half-bulit,but they always failed meanwhile allies inside the base never owned flag for long time,it led to allies couldn't protect dynamitable inside or reforce the allies outside through axis main entrance respawn point in time.
Once tank cross the bridge under main entrance,almost no one cross bridge to protect tank,only some allies engineers tried to dynamite plant or so,then u can see our poor engineers still kept on trying to blow main entrance or repairing tank lonely after failed once and again.
it was worse that allies could turn back to repair the bridge by jumping into frozen river instead of ready to plant dynamite at main entrance when bridge complete destroyed suddenly.so after a long time,main entrance blow and tank into the tunnel.allies should be won but time not enough sometimes.
Axis side:at beginning,it was not easy for axis go outside from the exit above main entrance;they also stuck on the hill under allies mg42 construct point for a while;it seemed that they more like jumping river than do something else.meanwhile u can see some axis defenders stand do nothing inside main entrance nearby until allies invaders inside approached them.
some stranges still happened that axis engineers tried to plant dynamite on bridge even if the bridge destroyed fully,u often watched axis engineers jumping into frozen river to try to get the dynamitable which fell into the river but not planted yet.more strange was allies cvops in disguise tried in vain to satchel on bridge which not exist!!
(Plz check the pics in detail on attachments)
Here is some advices for main entrance:
i think more than enough for axis defensive around main entrance,if above stuckage issues fixed and dynamiting on bridge corrected,that will be ok.
its high time to do something for allies attacking main entrance.i really dislike that most allies go inside but few engineers struggle against more axis outside even if tank cross bridge.
Now I will adjust my plan a bit which i had mentioned a few days ago:
1.Allow few allies like cvops to use rear path for flag or satchel.
2.Only allies engineer may go water ways if tank just cross the bridge under the main entrance.
3.No matter whether flag owned by allies,allies should be focus on the fight outside such like backing up construct bridge or so. setting some allies panzer action or so on the hill near the bridge will be useful.
4.A top priority should be allies other class back up their engineers to dynamiate at main entrance outside
5.and the dynamitable should be protect by other allies class nearby until main entrance blow when tank cross bridge.
6.Disable axis dynamite plant on half-built bridge or even bridge fully will be helpful,of course.

Well,let's see match around the fuel.
I'm afraid allies hardly won on this big map when 15vs15 and the allies offensive should be strength for making sure allies by themselves can win even if much more axis defensive.
1.Escort tank to the depot is easy for allies.when tank reach the depot and axis tried to reclaim the flag,allies should use mg42 near the door to outside in the main entrance.that will be a bit useful to prevent axis reaching the flag.
2.Allow allies cvops always satchel the axis mg42 near radar1 even mg42 at water entrance,it will disturb axis engieers'defensive at least.
3.In my opinion,since defensive at ramp become smaller if axis have flag,do not immediately turn on recapture flag by allies but give alliesteam 30 seconds or more delay when a allies got the fuel.i mean if axis respawn at depotyard naturally decrease the num of axis defensive near ramp and this is a good chance for allies with fuel to the deliver easily quickly.
4.And once allies got fuel,they have two choices:
chosing the shortcut to ramp,the allies should more covering fire the one with objective nearby,such as fieldops call airstrike at axis respawn exit outside,medic behind the objective-man,cvops sniper at enemy near the ramp or panzer aim at any axis far from;
chosing the tunnel way,some allies should protect him not only follow him to the railtrack but strike at axis main bunker from another direction like the fuelbunker or nearby.
5.BTW,it would better to avoid many allies and the one with objective blocking near the exit of tunnel,it always led to all of them killed soon,u know.
6.I believe that spreading out axis defensive is a good idea when allies tried to the deliver but axis too heavy. that's it for allies so far,maybe i will need more thinking about allies later.
As to axis defensive,the allies stolen fuel too easy but deliver too hard.For balance we need more defensive in the fuelbunker but less defensive near the ramp.
1.my suggestion is change some action which used to defend the ramp to defend the fuel,such like move the moveable mg42 action to the fuelbunker or remake action for fuel.
2.the fuel mg42 should be more use.
3.let one axis keep in the fuel room maybe a good idea or hiding axis in some room on the second floor.
4.Once allies got fuel and escape from the bunker.made axis using the radar1 mg42 more often and some panzer waiting on the upper of the main bunker near ramp,others go for the tunnel.that way will be better for balance.

Generally speaking,allies can win but really heavy fight anywhere,your the WIP work well,thx for your chrismas gift for me and anybody love ET,cheers!!!
keep up your work,hoping to see more balance version soon!!

[xgzoq]

Originally Posted by xgzoq

Happy New Years,TomTom!
Doing test many times with 20bots or 24bots even 28bots,i have never experienced memory problems or others,but so far i can't promise whether it will be happened on other one's machines.

During test on matching around main entrance i have still notice some issues
Allies side:at beginning,most of allies escort the tank while few ones go to water entrance.That's fine.
but when tank near the bridge which not built yet,more prefer chosing back path and less maybe go ahead.allies engineers outside hurry to dynmaite main entrance when biridge half-bulit,but they always failed meanwhile allies inside the base never owned flag for long time,it led to allies couldn't protect dynamitable inside or reforce the allies outside through axis main entrance respawn point in time.
Once tank cross the bridge under main entrance,almost no one cross bridge to protect tank,only some allies engineers tried to dynamite plant or so,then u can see our poor engineers still kept on trying to blow main entrance or repairing tank lonely after failed once and again.
it was worse that allies could turn back to repair the bridge by jumping into frozen river instead of ready to plant dynamite at main entrance when bridge complete destroyed suddenly.so after a long time,main entrance blow and tank into the tunnel.allies should be won but time not enough sometimes.
Axis side:at beginning,it was not easy for axis go outside from the exit above main entrance;they also stuck on the hill under allies mg42 construct point for a while;it seemed that they more like jumping river than do something else.meanwhile u can see some axis defenders stand do nothing inside main entrance nearby until allies invaders inside approached them.
some stranges still happened that axis engineers tried to plant dynamite on bridge even if the bridge destroyed fully,u often watched axis engineers jumping into frozen river to try to get the dynamitable which fell into the river but not planted yet.more strange was allies cvops in disguise tried in vain to satchel on bridge which not exist!!
(Plz check the pics in detail on attachments)
Here is some advices for main entrance:
i think more than enough for axis defensive around main entrance,if above stuckage issues fixed and dynamiting on bridge corrected,that will be ok.
its high time to do something for allies attacking main entrance.i really dislike that most allies go inside but few engineers struggle against more axis outside even if tank cross bridge.
Now I will adjust my plan a bit which i had mentioned a few days ago:
1.Allow few allies like cvops to use rear path for flag or satchel.
2.Only allies engineer may go water ways if tank just cross the bridge under the main entrance.
3.No matter whether flag owned by allies,allies should be focus on the fight outside such like backing up construct bridge or so. setting some allies panzer action or so on the hill near the bridge will be useful.
4.A top priority should be allies other class back up their engineers to dynamiate at main entrance outside
5.and the dynamitable should be protect by other allies class nearby until main entrance blow when tank cross bridge.
6.Disable axis dynamite plant on half-built bridge or even bridge fully will be helpful,of course.

Well,let's see match around the fuel.
I'm afraid allies hardly won on this big map when 15vs15 and the allies offensive should be strength for making sure allies by themselves can win even if much more axis defensive.
1.Escort tank to the depot is easy for allies.when tank reach the depot and axis tried to reclaim the flag,allies should use mg42 near the door to outside in the main entrance.that will be a bit useful to prevent axis reaching the flag.
2.Allow allies cvops always satchel the axis mg42 near radar1 even mg42 at water entrance,it will disturb axis engieers'defensive at least.
3.In my opinion,since defensive at ramp become smaller if axis have flag,do not immediately turn on recapture flag by allies but give alliesteam 30 seconds or more delay when a allies got the fuel.i mean if axis respawn at depotyard naturally decrease the num of axis defensive near ramp and this is a good chance for allies with fuel to the deliver easily quickly.
4.And once allies got fuel,they have two choices:
chosing the shortcut to ramp,the allies should more covering fire the one with objective nearby,such as fieldops call airstrike at axis respawn exit outside,medic behind the objective-man,cvops sniper at enemy near the ramp or panzer aim at any axis far from;
chosing the tunnel way,some allies should protect him not only follow him to the railtrack but strike at axis main bunker from another direction like the fuelbunker or nearby.
5.BTW,it would better to avoid many allies and the one with objective blocking near the exit of tunnel,it always led to all of them killed soon,u know.
6.I believe that spreading out axis defensive is a good idea when allies tried to the deliver but axis too heavy. that's it for allies so far,maybe i will need more thinking about allies later.
As to axis defensive,the allies stolen fuel too easy but deliver too hard.For balance we need more defensive in the fuelbunker but less defensive near the ramp.
1.my suggestion is change some action which used to defend the ramp to defend the fuel,such like move the moveable mg42 action to the fuelbunker or remake action for fuel.
2.the fuel mg42 should be more use.
3.let one axis keep in the fuel room maybe a good idea or hiding axis in some room on the second floor.
4.Once allies got fuel and escape from the bunker.made axis using the radar1 mg42 more often and some panzer waiting on the upper of the main bunker near ramp,others go for the tunnel.that way will be better for balance.

Generally speaking,allies can win but really heavy fight anywhere,your the WIP work well,thx for your chrismas gift for me and anybody love ET,cheers!!!
keep up your work,hoping to see more balance version soon!!

hello,TomTom,how is going on?anyway i really hope to see your reply soon!!

[TomTom]

Sorry xgzoq I was working on other things for the last 10 days. I have just back to looking at v1rocket. You are right about the axis bridge dynamiteing the bridge after it is destroyed, don't know why I never saw them do it before (basically a typo in the aiscript, and one in the nav). Over the next week I am going to focus on improving the play up to the main gate being blown and ignore the rest of the map for now. Since the allied mgnest construct is such low priority I have added mobile mg42 and panzer camps on the allied side to help protect any allied engrs outside the gate. I don't think that I will have them camp beside the engrs outside the gate, they would be too vulnerable. Only the medics should stay close to the engrs and they are tasked with that on the inside (though those actions may need improvement).

[TomTom]

Update:

Here is some advices for main entrance:
i think more than enough for axis defensive around main entrance,if above stuckage issues fixed and dynamiting on bridge corrected,that will be ok.
its high time to do something for allies attacking main entrance.i really dislike that most allies go inside but few engineers struggle against more axis outside even if tank cross bridge.
Now I will adjust my plan a bit which i had mentioned a few days ago:
1.Allow few allies like cvops to use rear path for flag or satchel.
2.Only allies engineer may go water ways if tank just cross the bridge under the main entrance.
3.No matter whether flag owned by allies,allies should be focus on the fight outside such like backing up construct bridge or so. setting some allies panzer action or so on the hill near the bridge will be useful.
4.A top priority should be allies other class back up their engineers to dynamiate at main entrance outside
5.and the dynamitable should be protect by other allies class nearby until main entrance blow when tank cross bridge.
6.Disable axis dynamite plant on half-built bridge or even bridge fully will be helpful,of course.

i) "stuckage issues fixed" (There are now 4 jump down points)
ii)"dynamiting on bridge corrected" (typo corrected)
3. 4. 5.Allied Soldiers camps (panzer and mg42) aimed at Gate from far side to support engrs. Also one sniper. By not being on gate side they can't be wiped out with an air strike and the camps don't have to be turned off when the bridge is destroyed. On inside Medics roam to support engrs (might add a medic camp)
6. Side effect of fixing the typo means that Axis will not likely dynamite a fully built bridge all the way back to its totally un-constructed state (2 plants needed). Without another fake TOI all I can do is delay disabling the dynamite-action a few seconds after the first dynamite blows. But this delay may mean bots will plant dynamite at a fully blown bridge on occasion.

I am currently experimenting with disabling the tractor(tank) and the inside dynamite depending on the bridge, tractor position and flag ownership. The intent is to stop the Allied engrs wasting time on the tractor and the water route. However I still think that the inside dynamite is the more likely to succeed. The CP is a problem because its priority is can only be set at the start of the map, and making it a priority distract the engrs (who seek to dynamite it/construct it instead of the bridge/gate). Turning the CP priority off will affect the whole match especially later on because the team that owns the CP recharges fastest. I may have to adjust the team make up to give the allies more engrs if I can't come up with a good combination.

[TomTom]

Just so you know I am still working on it when I have time. Saw a couple of places where actions groups were not being activated resulting in no goal errors. Unfortunately I just accidentally over wrote the aiscript again so I will have to try to figure out what I had changed in that file over the last 4 weeks or less before I can get back to testing.

[TomTom]

0.04 posted to my site. I think I have squashed the bugs but please report any bad behavior.

Better fight at main gate and fuel, new deliver point, Command post priority decreased to focus on gate. Extra allied medic for better engr support and deliver. There are about 30 new actions, 5 more routes and dozens of nodes so it is getting a bit full. See the readme for more details on changes.

[xgzoq]

hey TomTom,long time no see!how have u been!
yes,thx for many changes on the 0.04 version indeed!but not enough espeicailly on initial attack at the entrance outside,i'm afraid.
here are my recent test result with 12vs12(3 engrs,3 medics,2 feilds,2 cvops and 2 panzers per team)
on the initial attack at gate:
1.about the bridge
i thought the allies camps(such like mg,panzer even artil)outside should be helpful with constructing the bridge,although this way kept allies field and soldiers on the battlefiled outside more frequently than before,it was no use to cover allies construct the bridge.in fact,we still always see allies engrs had difficulty with construct and kept struggle agaist the enemy at other side of bridge.sometimes,allies other classes went towards to the construct point,but they just gather around even disturb engr's job instead of covering fire or so.to my confusion that a cvops with disguise ever attemped to replace engr's position??(detail pics below show u all)
and to my surprise that when bridge fully destroyed,allies engrs never plant dynamite outside until they rebuilt the bridge again by cross the river even if they didn't have to do so as they stay inside safely?!
turn to axis side,it seemd that bridge dynamite bug fixed,but i don't care about that,now you must know that the bridge always blown in time had responsible for lacking of enough time for allies to win later.
so far my suggestion to the bridge is just don't let axis engr dynamite the bridge at all!don't waste of your time to deal with the bridge.as u can see,allies have much trouble with construct the bridge as axis defensive at the bridge heavily such like mg under the gate,panzer aim at the construct even artil.even if not,any of them could hit the allies engr with high accuracy on the upper gate easily.
i'm sure the fight'll be more exciting after axis dynamite bridge banned!
2.then let's talk about the gate
if there is nothing wrong with my memory,the change should be including:One new dynamite position for allies hidden corner plant outside.unfortunately,hardly see this new change happend during many tests.in fact,i just cought a allies engr attemped to go for the new position once.and he failed undoubtedly because he did nothing but just standing the corner with the dynamitable?maybe u should adjust some action or else,anyhow this will be helpful to blow the gate easily,i guess.
and to my disappointment that no matter whether the tank under the gate or not the allies prefer to try to dynamite the gate from inside more often then before even if the backway is more dangerous.its boring that allies engr still insist on for the inside of gate after they failed too many times. occasionally,allies medic lucky protect them until the inside gate blown,but we always see allies medics killed before the engr approach the gate.
i know the inside-plan can success,but the outside-plan must be more easily for allies to blow the gate,u know.why don't u try it?
well,i'm tired,maybe give u some advices for the fight around the fuel next time,but i really hope the next version for allies easily blown the gate firstly!
and hope to see your reply soon as well!

[TomTom]

Thanks for all the feedback and help
.
I know what you say about building the bridge, but IMO when I play engr I have difficulty surviving building the bridge so I expect the bots to have difficulty too. The one thing I might do is add an in-line camp to protect the engrs but the only way to ensure it would be filled would be to remove other camps. and if the camp was anyplace near the construct crates it would draw artillery fire on to the engrs.

The 0.04 waypoints showed very good balance in 9 vs 9 (i.e remove skywalker from the included bots file) in 32 games a ratio of 6:5 axis:allies. So any major changes like disabling the dynamite will impact that. But if you want to tryout your idea I have attached alternate aiscipts (see the readme as to how to use). BTW I almost never put 2 bot field Ops per team they are too efficient at gaining XP making a long map like this very difficult for the attacker.

I have noticed an occasional bot coming under fire at the crates and lying down, Odd as there are no nodes or non-engr action to explain why, so it is most likely related to taking fire at an essentially dead end in the nav, possibly the bot has selected a node down on the frozen river and is reacting to the jump down. Anyway I have now added some more nodes to possibly add a camp so we will see if that changes things.

I did not fully test the new dynamite position. I know the engrs will go for it and the axis can defuse at it, but the allied engrs I monitored always got killed before they got around the cement buttress. I'll do some isolated testing to see if the action position is too close to the wall for planting etc.

The inside dynamite is going to be the most successful (it is for me too). Axis can't mine it and they don't get much Xp camping inside. So if the axis engrs are all outside or the respawn too long that is when the allies win. The outside plants are too difficult to depend upon. Bots don't have the same team play as humans. Really bots play like single players, you only think that they play as a team when they randomly all go to the same spot. So the medics supporting the engrs inside is really a combination of randomness and limiting the available actions available to them. A medic bot will only follow you if you are badly wounded, if you are healthy they could care less about the dynamite plants or the match. Unlike team fortress and some other quake games fritzbot bots don't obey "follow me" instructions. Good Waypointing is about providing enough actions so you don't know where exactly the bots will show up but not so many that they won't randomly mass attack on occasion.