Re: bots are too easy

[CS1.6]

Hello,

i play cs 1.6 periodically on LAN tournaments and on the rare occasions our team members are all online in our private training server. I found podbot_mm and am quite happy to have found this little treasure, since it's the only bot expedient for playing cs 1.6 without cheats. If you really want to become aware how reality looks like then try any bot without the use of cheats and you will immediately find out that it's impossible to play (and this beeing said from someone who is good in cs) since all bots are suited for the use of cheats.

Now, since i expect many (online playing) people to complain about "the easyness" of podbot_mm V3 in the same fashion as it is beeing done allready and since i doubt that many other people like myself will lose words on this forum, i expect the masses will overrun the few (real elite players) and because of that podbot_mm V3 is very likely to become unplayable for LAN preparation purposes in the future, repectively in the upcoming versions.

The behaviour of the bots is very impressive. They tend sometimes just to ignore footstep noises and they also sometimes tend to just turn around and head to another direction/map goal in midth of a battle - forgetting that they had just contact and were in a fight but i can only speak for the skill settings from 0 to 50 (from "noob/idiot" to "average" ..obviously i am someone with such skills). Also it seems to me that they have to check specific camp points (like the left box in the straight narrow hallway in de_dust leading to A). At those occasions the kills by the bots occur way to fast. It's impossible to react even and normally it's actually the hiding/camping player that enjoys has an advantage. The last point would be the only "issue" to actually worth mention.

Now, you may not get much response from them but the few real elite cs players with LAN tournament ambitions, and also success (like me) would obviouly use only your bots. So here goes my thanks and compliment: you did a good job on the V3. A realistic bot for the few elite cs players.

What i would like to know now is if v3.15c is the same bot version as in the all-in-one 2.7 (which i use) and if the future releaes will actually become harder? If so..it would be helpfull to know in the particular release notes. Well for a serious player the podbot_mm v3 is as best as it could get.

[person135]

I...don't get what you are saying...

but anyway, bots are easy when i start sniping. It is not very hard to kill them with snipers.

It is true that the bots behave better than the other bots. The bots behave in a way that isn't humanlike, which we are all accustomed to, nor botlike. What I mean is that they don't behave like normal bots(crappy bots) and don't simulate human behavior extremely well. But their eccentric behavior does not make them not fun to play with. Their not behaving like bots or humans give them a sense of randomness.

@ CS1.6@LAN tournaments: btw, what's your LAN server? I am really needing a good server to play on. Also, have you heard of hamachi? It lets people who are not on LAN play together on a virtual LAN.

[KWo]

Originally Posted by CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments

(...) podbot_mm V3 is very likely to become unplayable for LAN preparation purposes in the future, repectively in the upcoming versions.

I don't understand why it becomes unplayable for LAN preparation? Only because it's too easy to kill? Did You try them at the skill (100)? They headshot me all the time at that skill.

Originally Posted by CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments

They tend sometimes just to ignore footstep noises

The whole hearing stuff will be fixed in V3B16.

Originally Posted by CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments

and they also sometimes tend to just turn around and head to another direction/map goal in midth of a battle - forgetting that they had just contact and were in a fight

If there is some more hearable (higher volume) sound from another direction - they try to look there. The people were complaing they don't look around as humans. I did it - now the people are complaing the bot is looking around too much...

Originally Posted by CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments

What i would like to know now is if v3.15c is the same bot version as in the all-in-one 2.7 (which i use) and if the future releaes will actually become harder? If so..it would be helpfull to know in the particular release notes.

You can always check the version of podbot mm included in All-In-One here. If You read carefully You can see the Build number (currently V3Build15g). The release notes are available in this topic. From the page 7 are news about changes since V3B15d.

BTW - why didn't You post

[CS1.6]

Hello,

i want to worsen the bots aiming. In particular i am interested in making them shoot in slower rates. Which value in the setting affects this?


Additionally i want to know how to change the below pasted settings to worsen the aiming:

You can answer directly beneath the setting/command. Knowing merely if the particular command should be set to a "higher" or "lower" value would be sufficient. An additional explanation to the command would be ideal.

--------------


# VERTICAL (up/down) spring stiffness of the aiming system. This value affects
# the quickness of the crosshair movement, as well as the frequency of
# the resulting oscillations.(default: 13.0)
pb_aim_spring_stiffness_x 13.0

# HORIZONTAL (left/right) spring stiffness of the aiming system. This value
# affects the quickness of the crosshair movement, as well as the frequency of
# the resulting oscillations. (default: 13.0)
pb_aim_spring_stiffness_y 13.0

# VERTICAL (up/down) damping coefficient of the aiming system. This value also
# affects the quickness of the crosshair movement, and the amplitude of
# the resulting oscillations.(default: 0.22)
pb_aim_damper_coefficient_x 0.22

# HORIZONTAL (left/right) damping coefficient of the aiming system. This value
# also affects the quickness of the crosshair movement, and the amplitude of
# the resulting oscillations.(default: 0.22)
pb_aim_damper_coefficient_y 0.22

# VERTICAL (up/down) error margin of the aiming system. This value affects how
# far (in game length units) the bot will allow its crosshair to derivate from
# the ideal direction when not targeting any player in particular.
# (default: 2.0)
pb_aim_deviation_x 2.0

# HORIZONTAL (left/right) error margin of the aiming system. This value affects
# how far (in game length units) the bot will allow its crosshair to derivate
# from the ideal direction when not targeting any player in particular.
# (default: 1.0)
pb_aim_deviation_y 1.0

# Perpendicular influence of the vertical axis on a HORIZONTAL movement. This
# value affects how much (in fraction of 1) the bot will be disturbed when
# moving its crosshair on an axis by the inherent movement on the other axis.
# (default: 0.25)
pb_aim_influence_x_on_y 0.25

# Perpendicular influence of the horizontal axis on a VERTICAL movement. This
# value affects how much (in fraction of 1) the bot will be disturbed when
# moving its crosshair on an axis by the inherent movement on the other axis.
# (default: 0.17)
pb_aim_influence_y_on_x 0.17

# Maximal value in seconds after which the aiming system will re-evaluate its
# ideal direction. This affects how often a bot will attempt to correct an
# imprecise crosshair placement by moving the crosshair inside the error
# margin bounds defined by the botaim_deviation CVARs.(default: 1.2)
pb_aim_offset_delay 1.2

# Fraction of the full speed the aiming system will adopt as speed when aiming
# at nothing in particular. This affects how slow the bot will move its
# crosshair when targeting nobody, relatively to its full speed capacity.
# (default: 0.5)
pb_aim_notarget_slowdown_ratio 0.5

# Fraction of the estimated target's velocity the aiming system will rely on
# when aiming at a moving target. This affects how well the bot will be able
# to track moving targets on the fly, and whether it will have a tendancy
# to aim ahead of it or behind it. (default: 2.2)
pb_aim_target_anticipation_ratio 2.2


-------------------

I guess hitbox aiming by the bots is not possible. For example only shots to the legs or foots.

[KWo]

I don't understand. Before You told me they are too easy, now You want to make them worse...
The bots from the version V3 Build 16 can hear all stuffs better (like footsteps) so please use that one (You just need to update the binaries from here).

These 2 below:

Originally Posted by podbot.cfg

# VERTICAL (up/down) spring stiffness of the aiming system. This value affects
# the quickness of the crosshair movement, as well as the frequency of
# the resulting oscillations.(default: 13.0)
pb_aim_spring_stiffness_x 13.0

# HORIZONTAL (left/right) spring stiffness of the aiming system. This value
# affects the quickness of the crosshair movement, as well as the frequency of
# the resulting oscillations. (default: 13.0)
pb_aim_spring_stiffness_y 13.0

they affect the quickenss and speed of the movement of the crosshair (if you increase them, they will turn faster). But also the damper coefficients they have the influence on aiming (if You increase these coefficients, the bot will need more time to reach the target - it will turn slower).
Try to play a bit with these settings so You will know how do they work. You can change them during the game from the console (without shutting down the server)

About the places the bots is trying to hit (head, the body etc)

Originally Posted by botskill.cfg

# HEADSHOT_ALLOW specifies (in percent) the probability of aiming at the Head.
# This doesn't mean he actually fires at your head but he is allowed to do so.
(...)
# Settings for Bots Skill 100
MIN_DELAY 0.00
MAX_DELAY 0.10
MIN_TURNSPEED 10.0
MAX_TURNSPEED 12.0
AIM_OFFS_X 0.0
AIM_OFFS_Y 0.0
AIM_OFFS_Z 0.0
HEADSHOT_ALLOW 100
HEAR_SHOOTTHRU 100
SEEN_SHOOTTHRU 100

These seetings (in botskill.cfg) You need to change before You start the server.

[CS1.6]

Originally Posted by KWo

I don't understand why it becomes unplayable for LAN preparation?

Originally Posted by KWo

I don't understand.

I didn't tell you last time but this time i do for the sake of communication: read the post again please. It shouldn't be too hard to understand. Even the other person (in this thread) understood it the right way.





They are allready too hard to play. I'm using V3.16. Playing on the lowest skills 0-39 and i had to worsen the bot aiming skills in the botskills.cfg drastically. Even the lowest bot skills are with default botskill.cfg unplayable for normal people (without cheats).

pb_minbotskill 0
pb_maxbotskill 39


# Settings for Bots Skill 0-19
MIN_DELAY 1.60
MAX_DELAY 2.00
MIN_TURNSPEED 2.0
MAX_TURNSPEED 3.0
AIM_OFFS_X 80.0
AIM_OFFS_Y 80.0
AIM_OFFS_Z 100.0
HEADSHOT_ALLOW 0
HEAR_SHOOTTHRU 0
SEEN_SHOOTTHRU 0

# Settings for Bots Skill 20-39
MIN_DELAY 1.00
MAX_DELAY 1.50
MIN_TURNSPEED 3.0
MAX_TURNSPEED 4.0
AIM_OFFS_X 60.0
AIM_OFFS_Y 60.0
AIM_OFFS_Z 82.0
HEADSHOT_ALLOW 10
HEAR_SHOOTTHRU 0
SEEN_SHOOTTHRU 0

[KWo]

Originally Posted by CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments

They are allready too hard to play. I'm using V3.16. Playing on the lowest skills 0-39 and i had to worsen the bot aiming skills in the botskills.cfg drastically. Even the lowest bot skills are with default botskill.cfg unplayable for normal people (without cheats).

I don't think these bots with skills about 30-39 are too hard to play for normal players. Look at the picture. I wasn't cheating. Almost all the time I was just using mp5navy and aug (I was not camping, too).

Note:
pb_maxbotskill is valid only for bots You are adding without specyfing their skill. So - if in Your podbot.cfg there are still some bots added with skill (100), that setting will not affect these bots (they wll be still with the skill (100) and also if You will add bots from podbot menu by add a specyfic bot - it will not affect them, too. But if You use podbotmenu and You sue the option quick add a bot - it will affec them. Also if You will use:
pb add
(without parameters) or
pb fillserver
(without parameters) - these bots will be added with the skill defined in the range pb_minbotskill and pb_maxbotskill.

[person135]

Well, it depenes on which botaim you are using. Only certain values affect certain botaims.

look at this post:
http://forums.bots-united.com/showthread.php?t=5766


@KWo: what map is that?

@CS1.6@LAN...: KWo is not the only person who doesn't understand what you mean by podbot will not be playable for LAN purposes. What do you mean the mass will overrun the real elite players? Also, what do you mean you will lose words?

[KWo]

Originally Posted by person135

@KWo: what map is that?

cs_arabstreets
And how about You - V3B16 is also too hard now for You on skill 100? I haven't got any info from You if on the level 100 they were also too easy with the previous version for You...

@CS1.6 @ LAN Tournaments - sorry, forgive my poor English which causing me not understand You...

[person135]

i haven't tried playing them yet. but i'm sure they're ok. level 100 was ok before so now, i'm even happier that someone can own me.

btw, last build 15 level 100 is equivalent to what level of build 16?