CS:S is terrible

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

well Steam finally managed to end that 900 megabyte download yesterday. I mean CS:Source. So I tried it for the first time this night.

Graphically, it's okay.

But game wise, it's terrible.

I started on cs_italy. Okay, after a few minutes of architectural tourism through the map, I decided to test the player physics. Nice first impression, my player reacted in almost the same way as the old CS. The collisions with the world work as expected. I could have been fooled thinking it was just a BSP world.

But the entities physics... alas. I see a table, I want to jump on it. IMPOSSIBLE. I bounce off this shit like on a bumper everytime. I want to navigate the underpass in the wine cellar with the barrels and all, and it's like I'm in a flipper game. I want to climb the barrels: booooing. I navigate around a corner and jumps over a bicycle: booooing. Even a stupid BUCKET makes me bounce 3 meters away. I can't stand on no chair, I can't camp on no table, unless it's tied to the world. What the FUCK????????

So I decided to shoot a few hossies, to see the bullet physics. First one, headshot. Poof, the hostage falls down. No recoil, no movement, no flinch, nothing: it's as if I had just unplugged him from life, as if the bullet hadn't hit him at all. Wanted to test a bit more, so I take my glock and aim for the hand. Normally, the arm would have flinched because of the bullet's velocity. Nothing. Not a movement. I fire and fire and fire and fire, that stupid hostage goes "waa" "ouch" "eek" "aiiie" "mommy", his health goes down and down and down while he stands PERFECTLY IMMOBIL. Not a single movement. In the end I take my knife and stab that bastard. I would have expected to see blood marks on his face. Many games do it quite well. Far Cry does it very well. Even an old thing like Soldier of Fortune: Double Helix does it. Here, nothing. I can knife him, stab him, pierce the bastard with countless holes, he stays as pink and shiny as a little jesus.
Man. What a waste of code.

But my main grief is against the entity physics. Even a bucket flies in an unrealistic manner when I shoot at it ! Far Cry did a MUCH better job at physics than CS:Source !!! Here just about ANYTHING makes you bounce away from your path as much as that you have to know PERFECTLY the map and what are the "spots" to avoid and the "entities" to circle around so as to be able to play correctly ! Man, if I want to take cover, if I dodge behind a wall, or in a doorway, I am INSTANTLY bounced back on the road by some shit there !!!!!

And I've always been a climber. I love to camp at impossible places. Here, I just CANNOT stand on no fucking TABLE or no fucking BARREL !!! it's FORBIDDEN ! I can't even JUMP PAST IT, it just makes me bounce away !!!

what a pitiful shit. HL2 which I'm downloading now oughta be a LOT better, else I'll ask for a refund. Or damn it, they give me the source, and I'm'onna fix one thing or two. >

[HangFire]

I completely agree, CS:S is a huge dissapointment. CS 1.6 and even Condition Zero are a lot more polished, and a lot more fun.


HL2 is in fact a lot better than CS:S. The physics aren't screwed up like in CS, you don't get bounced off of everything.

[Zacker]

I agree. Maybe not for the exact same reasons as CSS lacks in so many other ways.

But on the other hand its not bad for game developed in less than a year?

[TruB]

think the bounce of is a bug..

however.. a bullet in head and they just fall to the ground is how it is in real life.. maybe not in a action movie.. but you see.. a bullet dont make your body parts fall back.. since the bullet rather penitrate then push..

and as Hangfire said.. hl2 is better.. problably..
as small parts as arms wont do any sudden movements just bezus of the bullet.. more then ouch you shot me..

[dead bwoy]

hmm, the hosties...
I guess they don't have ragdoll physics?!?! When you shoot other players you can see the ragdoll physics. I have no idea why they didn't give the hosties ragdoll physics as well. And I HAVE seen blood on a hostie after shooting him. Try shooting them in the eye! Must I prove it with a screenie?

the bounce problem...
As a temporary fix, use sv_bounce 0. Using this, you'll walk right through those physics props. And CS:Source uses a special entity for multi-player props, prop_physics_multiplayer. "This class is the same as prop_physics, except the runtime collisions use a more bouncy method that avoids the prediction errors normal physics objects get." - from the cstrike.fgd

The physics props are 1000% better in HL2! You can even pick up and stack props on top of each other, as well as walking on them or building yourself a little staircase. I really want to see this in MP. Be sure to check out the HLDM mod that's out!

[HangFire]

All the HLDM mods so far are pretty rough and glitchy. I'm waiting for a polished one before I try it.

[Cheeseh]

bounce off is there becuse you've got latency. I guess If valve made the physics stuff happen on the client with regular updates from the server it might be better

[MarD]

Heyyo,

Heh, latency issues? I don't think there are man.. I did some HL2 coop with a bud, and he had np's whipping explosive barrels at me and catching anything I threw at him.

I hate these school comps... so ghey, logged me out of the forums TWICE when I tried to reply to this and then erased what I wrote... so that's 1 hr wasted by the school trying to type 1 post then go back to schoolwork, hope they're happy... cause I ain't.

The physics are messed up on CS:S. There is a delay with physics, but they're at least accurate. On HaloPC, they tried what you said Cheesh, but the updates weren't accurate... leading to a lot of warping, and confusion, and anger... if they attempt this on CS:S? sweet jebus I hope they do a better job than on HaloPC.

I wish you could like, pickup the objects like on HL2, but you can't you can't nudge stuff like desks either cause of the bounce... I thought, first thing I'd do once I got CS:S was go onna server with CS_Italy, pickup the radio, and run around the map, giving CT's the impression that, "HEY! I'mma T n00b! follow the radio to pwn me..." lmao, that would've been fun... but alas, no picking up.

Sniping's still fake, no swaying when scoped, and actually, the semiautosniper seems to have half-decent aim when you run-n-gun... and the colt and AK? they're waaay to accurate when you run-n-gun, it doesn't deteriorate, but DESTROYS the tactics in CS:S. I've seen 1 guy run-n-gun with the colt and get 42 kills and 2 deaths... tactical? hah! more like immitate Serious Sam.

So yeah, your guy has godlike aim with the colt and ak, but can't kick a bucket around... the powerbalance is a little off there...

Also, taking cover behind barrels doesn't work, heck, even 4 shots from a glock can knock them over, and since you can't hold the barrels infront of you like on HL2? there just there for eye candy really...

So I agree with you PMB, the physics are messed up really badly on objects.. I was also thinking of the possibilities you could do for crazy spots to get to on the map if you stacked some objects or had someone hold a barrel infront of you as a basic shield... but those little dreams of fun were crushed...

the new official bot turtlerock's upgrading for CS:S will probably make CS:S a LOT more tollerable..

Until the fixes and bug fixes of some of the stuff I mentioned above? I'll probably avoid CS:S entirely.... I've still gotta beat They Hunger anywho... just aboot done chapter 2.

[stefanhendriks]

short reply:

hl2 physics rule.

css physics suck.

[dead bwoy]

So one or some of you coders should code the HL2 phys_props back into CS:Source. There seems to be a problem with transferring all the phys data via MP games, hence the prop_physics_multiplayer entity. Of course you'd have to wait for the full SDK due out this next week.
As I quoted in my first post:
prop_physics_multiplayer. "This class is the same as prop_physics, except the runtime collisions use a more bouncy method that avoids the prediction errors normal physics objects get." - from the cstrike.fgd
This entity was used because VALVe had alot of problems with lag when it came to transferring phys data. Maybe we can learn something from that HLDM mod once the source comes out?

I guess this is what I'm trying to ask: "Is this even possible/worthwhile?"