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FritzBot A bot for Return To Castle Wolfenstein - by Maleficus Return to Castle Wolfenstein

View Poll Results: Strafe Jumping in Fritz?
YES - let the bots strafe jump too! 3 60.00%
NO - leave things the way they are. 2 40.00%
OTHER - just remove strafe jumping totally. 0 0%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Maleficus
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Default Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 12-04-2005

I'm thinking about letting the bots strafe jump. The code has been around for a while, but I've had it disabled.

The problem(s):

1. On most pub servers, most players don't strafe jump, or don't do it all the time. ex: on beach, you might strafe jump up the beach to the wall, or out of the war room with the docs, but most of the time 90% of people are just running like normal. I don't want madly bunny hopping bots - I've never seen anyone on a pub server move or play that way, and I don't do that myself.

2. If they strafe jump, that means more work for waypointers, as they have to be good judges of where a good location is to strafe jump is, and let the path system know that. There is code in place that does some basic checks and will cancel jumping if its not possible, but the path system would have to be extended to get it right.

3. Right now, without bots strafe jumping, its easy to take advantage of your extra speed and out run them. Which isn't fair.

So, should I extend the path system and have strafejumping bots, should I leave it like it is (which isn't fair), or should I make it where NOONE can strafe jump?


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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Pierre-Marie Baty
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 12-04-2005

even though I don't play RTCW, I believe that whatever a human can, a bot should be able to mimic it.



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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Gatekeeper
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 12-04-2005

I agree with Pierre-Marie. However, I think you might be mixing up strafe jumping and bunny hopping. An example of bunny hopping could be how the Axis jump out of their spawn on Assault. Strafe jumping doesn't work unless you're going down an incline or you're jumping from a high place to a lower place. From my experience strafe jumping is way more common in ET due to the wide open terrains it has.
  
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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Denny
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 13-04-2005

No, don't do it, it sounds super complex to add in waypoints and it really doesn't sound like something that would make any much difference if added.

I say it's fine as is, if you do hoever want to implement something to make the bots more tougher, you could have them croutch more when they fire, i don't know if it's just me but i noticed they didn't do it very often. Like i said though that could have been a couple minor instances.

Now if you could make them do it automatically is another thing altogether. I'm just saying that for something so small it's not worth the workload required to implement it.

But it's totally up to you mal, i mean i guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to have that option available, but unless a map requires it i don't see it as a very benifical addition. Well unless someone can prove me wrong (beside the fact that humans can do it). I mean you can still make waypoints play out close to human play without having to include this feature (that's what i ment).


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Last edited by Denny; 13-04-2005 at 00:50..
  
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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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CrapShoot
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 18-04-2005

Bots should be able to strafe jump.

Gatekeeper, you got the definitions wrong. Strafe jumping can be done on any incline. Just sprint forward, jump, strafe left or right, and flick the mouse to the direction you want to go. This action increases your velocity because of the way the quake engine computes it. You're basically moving on 3 different planes.

http://velocity.lunarpages.com/trickjumping.html

Waypointing for strafe jumps shouldn't be that difficult. Anywhere you want the bots to move faster, you would set a path flag for it (I think).

Maybe a cvar like sv_botstrafe 0/1 would be a good compromise?

Last edited by CrapShoot; 18-04-2005 at 19:15..
  
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Gatekeeper
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 18-04-2005

Yes, I know what trickjumping is... however I was under the impression that it's only called strafe jumping when you jump repetetively... evidently I got my definitions of bunny hopping and strafe jumping mixed up. In that case, bunny hopping in RtCW seems much harder than in ET.

At any rate the cvar idea sounds good, because I know there are people who are vehemently opposed to all forms of trick jumping and there are people who can't trick jump so having the bots doing it wouldn't be fair to them.
  
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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Denny
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 18-04-2005

actually, if the code is already there i think it wouldn't be a bad idea too implement it, i mean what the hell huh. But i do agree with CrapShoot in that it should be cvar enabled. Because some people may not want it turned on at different times.

Just get the FG42 implemented, and i'll send you some roses....and a box of chocolates


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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Maleficus
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 18-04-2005

Gates right in that its not easy to strafe jump in RtCW. Was playing Goldrush the night I created this poll, which was probably why it was on my mind.

To test how feasible it was, I coded a little speedometer that lets me see the speed of any client.

On nice, flat areas with stamina left - the bots can strafe jump perfectly.

With stamina gone, they still did a pretty good job, but the increase in speed was only about 20 or so map units per second faster than just normal running. Now that could be because I don't have them do that "circle strafe jumping" trick with their angles (which sounds like a pain to code for btw).

On maps with uneven terrain (like mp_beach), they could actually "lose" their path and get stuck on something, or waste precious CPU cycles "getting their bearings" again. Note tho - if the path system were extended and the waypointer was good, these mistakes could be reduced. But its more work for everyone to get it right.

I tested it with a low FPS and someone who doesn't know how to strafe jump well, and the bots actually out ran them, which I didn't like at all.

I've never seen pub players strafe jump much, just clan/trickjump players. Since Fritz is based on the pub server model, I'm wondering how much of a needed feature this is afterall. :-/
Perhaps just as a extra speed burst in critical situations (running from an enemy, escaping with the docs)??

The basic code is there, but there would be a LOT more work for me to do to get it right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Just get the FG42 implemented, and i'll send you some roses....and a box of chocolates
Why Denny - what would my girlfriend say!!??


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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Denny
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 19-04-2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maleficus
Why Denny - what would my girlfriend say!!??
I can make the package have no return address, then you can just say you won an auction on eBay and those are what you bid on.


FritzbotRTCW Official Waypointer & Beta Tester
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Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad?
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Maleficus
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Default Re: Strafe Jumping bots - good or bad? - 25-04-2005

I may just ignore strafe/bunny hopping this version. I just added some code to have them intelligently sprint a lot better now, and its REALLY had a positive effect. You can really notice them moving when they need to now.

And, the bonus is it doesn't interfere with any other code.

I may change my mind, but for now I'm gonna leave strafe/bunny hopping on the back burner.


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