waypoints.bot-united.com?

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Ok, that sounds like we already got some reasonable criteria for RB waypoints...
Concernig PODBot Waypoints, I'd propose the following criteria:
- There should be no jumps / falls that lead to more than 5 points of health damage. Otherwise bots might die after repeating a certain jump for 2 or 3 times.
- They should reach all mission targets (duh.)
- There shouldn't be any wrong connections where they try to walk up a wall forever...
- If there are several ways to a point of the map, all ways where bots can go should be waypointed. I hate it when you know exactly where bots can appear and when, and from which direction.
From that point on, I think it starts becoming a matter of taste. Personally, if there's an outrageously mean sniper spot, I want bots to be able to go there and everywhere else on the map where it's possible to get them.
[ ...to boldly go where no bot has gone before... 8D ]
But other people might prefer more simple and direct waypoints. That's why I would keep them (the wp's, not the people ) away from the map, in separate files. This way we could offer two or three different files, maybe with a little comment (just one sentence where necessary, no extensive reviews) and the name of the waypointer, perhaps? I mean, if I see a PB waypoint done by TAZ, I know it's quality, so I wouldn't hesitate to d/l it. But if I see [censored]'s name, I know it's nothing I'm going to like.
Anyway you're totally right: We should spend enough thought on it before starting the whole stuff...
Oh, and one last thought about the distribution format: In general I prefer WinRAR to other packers, since its compression level is superior to WinZip. But in case of waypoints, filesizes are so small that it might be the best idea to offer them in the most frequently used format, zip. After all, it doesn't matter if the file is 34 kB or 37 kB in size, or does it?

[Onno Kreuzinger]

oh nice feedback :-)

for the different levels of waypoint detail (*g*) "lowd"
[load *g*] id suggest to make a minimal version a must, for enhanced versions should be explained what the waypointer enhanced it for (e.g. special areas, sniperpoints, removal of buggy wp's)

for the distribution i found that all newer winzip/rar can do tar.gz, but if the make a zip (on win) which misses the binary flag (like in ftp) it can get messed up when decompressing with unzip in linux. Oh and the tar.bz2 is also supported widely and uses a very good compression, i'd suggest that for big all-in-on packs.

oh and yes of coures, WP's are to be kept separate from bot's or maps, atlast in the back end. i dream of a CS download assistant, you choose realbot and some maps, it' downloads all needed stuff (realbot, map, waypoints, sounds),

cheers

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Glad to contribute... Especially because there seem to be some nice and civilised people in these forums. I used to visit a CS gun modelling forum, and the first reply I ever got was a stupid flame - for requesting a custom gun model in a custom gun model request forum ???
Anyway, back to the topic:
Stupid me - you're right. I totally forgot about linux users! So why not take tar.gz? If it's supported by all recent programs for all important OS'es...

With regard to the waypoints, it may indeed be the best idea to offer a "basic edition" as standard, and optionally some more elaborate waypoints. The problem with PB, for example, is that the more possibilities bots get, the higher is the risk that they fall down somewhere because when engaged in combat they don't stick strictly to the waypoints... And that's the point where ppl should be able to choose which way they like it: Do I want a "straight" waypoint set, or do I prefer having bots run over telephone cables, although they may occasionally fall down and die?

Hm, that download assistant sounds nice, but I wonder if the trouble programming it is worth the benefit?

Another point we haven't addressed yet is the fact that some maps are ideal to play with bots, while other maps are great with all human players, but virtually unplayable with bots. Can RB bots use lifts, for example? Or can they open those doors that need to be pushed ("use" key) instead of just walked into? PB bots can't... That's why it might be a good idea to introduce a map rating by "bottability" After all, this is a page focused on bots...

[Onno Kreuzinger]

Yes the usability for certain maps is a good point, we must keep that in mind.

for the download thing, it's a dream ...