For Austin... and all others, of course!

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Originally Posted by Austin

BKA, I didn't know that. In fact I don't even know what waypoints I am using for all of my maps. (waypoint confusion, waypoint disorganized H_LL!).

Um... could it be that your WP editor doesn't even display the waypointer's name any more? The original PB WP editor did that, so at round start you could read "waypoints created by TAZ", for example. That would help a bit. And it would give some credit to good waypointers like TAZ, SoUlFaThEr, bot_guy etc., whereas when you realize that a WP sucked, you know who did that bad work and can avoid WPs made by this author the next time.
(Actually this comment belongs to the new WP editor thread, but I see we got things mixed already... shit happens.)

Originally Posted by Austin

What I think would be very helpful to me and most everyone else is to create a "Very high quality waypoint pack for the default maps." It doesn't matter if we use the original wps that shipped with POD 2.5 or not. We need to tap into your knowledge and GET ORGANIZED! Could you round up the best of the best for the standard maps, fix what ever problems and then send a zip over.

9_9 Oh well... how could I deny that wish? I guess it will be 99,9% TAZ's and Count Floyd's work plus 0,1% T Wrecks fix... but if you want it, why not? And one thing is for sure: Having sufficient "training", it takes five minutes of walking through a map with pwp on to see if the WP is good or bad.

...but first I'll finish the custom maps!!

---------
*EDIT*

Now here are the latest ones I finished tweaking & checking since the last post:

cs_belair
cs_bikini
cs_bikinigirl (fixed the problem with that large metal door as far as possible)
cs_bikiniresort
cs_boxoffice (wanted to tweak existing WPs, ended up in making all new file)
cs_chinatown (a mixture of X-tender's old WP and mods/addistions by me)
cs_costabrava
cs_courthouse (1 tiny bug left, but no way around that one afaik, sorry)
cs_docks_v1
cs_duke2k
cs_ephyra2 (added access to the building through the window)
cs_espana
cs_estate2k_b2
cs_expo
cs_garten_chillout
cs_ghosthouse
cs_greenhouse
cs_haste_final

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

As I suspected last week, I couldn't stand the PITA of checking & debugging waypoints all the time and permitted myself the little change of making an entirely new set, this time for de_oilrig (as requested by Austin).

Once I'm posting this, I might as well add the latest maps I checked after I posted the last list:

cs_hispanic
cs_hive_apc (fixed some ladder issues and tried to make bots shoot that padlock do open a door, but it didn't work reliably enough. Took me 2 days)
cs_inca
cs_industrywest
cs_iraq
cs_kloster
cs_libre

[SoUlFaThEr]

only out of curiousity :

are you checking and correcting my waypoints too?

the other thing is :

when you do correct some stuff do you save them under your name or the original authors name?

[SoUlFaThEr]

just curious again (starting to believe ill grow wiskers soon) :

didnt i make all those official map waypoints for you once Mark?
i think most of them are still running on the server.......so far that i can see anyway.....maybe with the new A path bots.....i could redo the T start of de_dust since i hear they navigate cool now........

i spent a great deal of time doing that......if they suck id be glad to talk about whats wrong with em......cuz id like to keep my name on them

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Yes, SoUlFaThEr, one thing a waypointer MUST do now is to put waypoints EVERYWHERE in the map. Including where you believe the bots won't ever go, or even where you don't want them to go. Because the pathfinder works radically different now since Count Floyd's A* template has been activated. And also, there must be waypoints everywhere because during combat, the bots don't rely that much on the waypoints and if they run backwards and land in the middle of nowhere (for them, meaning where there are no waypoints) they will definitely get stuck. For example with your excellent waypoints for cs_havana, the house on the right of the CT spawn is divided in several rooms and there's even sub-rooms in each of these rooms ; but I frequently see bots seek cover in one of those little sub-rooms during a firefight, and once they get there they're stuck because you didn't put waypoints in these areas. So the bots bump into the walls trying desperately to find a way out, and eventually camp until the round ends, and nobody would ever have the idea to go and hunt the bot in such a confined area.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Whew...curious indeed!

1. I'm currently checking all the WPs I made or fixed / corrected / tweaked / improved myself. Other waypointers' files may come afterwards. (but read 4!)

2. If it's true what Pierre-Marie said (and there's no reason not to believe him, it's just that I don't know e.g. your cs_havana waypoint), then it may be necessary to have a look at least at the older waypoints you made - new bot versions may require different WP placement and open new possibilities.

3. I'm only making / checking WPs for custom maps. I don't waypoint maps in order to break records or read my name, I only waypoint them if I don't have decent waypoints. And I'm too lazy to try several WP files from the internet, there's too much junk out there.

4. I never remove the original waypointer's name! If I made the WP from scratch, you'll read my name only (duh!). If I only added / fixed 2-3 minor things, I'll keep the original waypointer's name. And if I add / fix something worth mentioning (areas without waypoints, broken ladder connections, unused possibilities, jumps not working etc.) that leads to improved gameplay, I add my name behind the existing one.
I don't want to take credit for other people's work!

*note* rewrote the whole post, for those who have read it last night and now wonder what happened... I installed steam yesterday, played online for some hours and was pretty wasted afterwards, resulting in way too much unnecessary text...

[SoUlFaThEr]

oooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!! OH dang PM !!!!!!
theres over 300 WP files with my name on them. If what you say is true.....(100% is)...then none of them are going to be any good with the
A Path bots.

hehe there went my rep LOL

There goes my efficiency concept for faster bot navigation using less waypoints with hand-done extended connections and every single waypoint placed by hand.

If the A path bot plays on any of my waypoints they will all get stuck i'm sure.....poooo what to do........

I guess the Day-of-the-Autowaypointer has arrived.....

I am literally afraid to test this bot...

Thanks for the info PM

T-Wrecks !
You are absolutely ok in my book man no worries duder 8D
your #3 is the reason why I started waypointing at all.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

There goes my efficiency concept for faster bot navigation using less waypoints with hand-done extended connections and every single waypoint placed by hand.

8o You placed waypoints beyond the auto-connection limit in open areas and then MANUALLY CONNECTED ALL OF THEM ??!?!? OMFG, how much work must that have been? That makes my 800+ nodes cs_beirut pwf or the 750 node cs_snowflake pwf I just finished look like 5 minutes' work... And in more than 300 maps... o_O *me losing consciousness*

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

I guess the Day-of-the-Autowaypointer has arrived.....

No, I don't think so. I could have used that all the time, with the number of waypoints being no problem at all (I've seen WPs with 1000 nodes, and they worked fine). But it just sucks. If the result is meant to be something decent, there's still no way around placing everything manually. Heck, I haven't set a single WP automatically in my whole fraggin' life, and I bet that won't change anytime soon... 8D

[SoUlFaThEr]

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

8o You placed waypoints beyond the auto-connection limit in open areas and then MANUALLY CONNECTED ALL OF THEM ??!?!? OMFG, how much work must that have been? That makes my 800+ nodes cs_beirut pwf or the 750 node cs_snowflake pwf I just finished look like 5 minutes' work... And in more than 300 maps... o_O *me losing consciousness*

I agree that I am crazy but I wanted to make efficient waypoints, but I just noticed that a waypoint having less than 400 waypoints never lagged........and in waypoints with only 300 or less, the bots got to the target areas much faster.....so i made good binds and just typed in numbers......for the pwp stuff. In the end I actually would refuse to do HUGE maps for this reason.

ONE NOTE TO AUSTIN/PM ON THIS:
I once mentioned extending the autoconnection limit...lets make that happen if its possible

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

ONE NOTE TO AUSTIN/PM ON THIS:
I once mentioned extending the autoconnection limit...lets make that happen if its possible

Your wills are orders, Soulfather.
How many units do you want ?