Strange map anomaly

[the bindlestiff]

I loaded up mp_island last night and discovered that the wooden bridges and cabin had lost their textures. Nothing remained but a featureless gray defining the shape of the objects. Other map features were normal -- just the wooden objects were affected. I replaced the map with a new copy, but no difference. Checked my system graphic settings, reset them to default, still no change. I have also begin to see this to a lesser extent in some other maps as well.

Can any of you mapping oldtimers tell me what happened and how to fix it?

[Valiant]

I can't say for certain, but one issue I've seen in other Quake3 Engine based games, is that on occassion textures from one map can "sometimes" cause textures from gamedata/base (or in this case rtcw/main) to fail loading, thereby causing untextured brushes to appear in-game.

This would most commonly happen when a map was ported over from one game to another, such as in from ET to RTCW or vice versa though it has been known (in Star Wars: Jedi Academy for example) to happen simply because the textures of a custom map conflict with one or more of the default game textures. I never did get straight answers on the exact nature of these texture conflicts, I would assume their filenames would be nearly irrelevant as for the most part they were given their own "mapname/textures/mapname_texturename.jpg" type path/name.

This may not be the issue you're having but if this started after a recent addition of maps to your main directory, I would suggest removing them to see if the textures return. If so you may have to re-add the maps one by one to narrow down the culprit.

Sorry if this doesn't help any or just comes off as the ravings of a deluded fool. heh.

[SA_RTCW]

Was the texture that you saw a dark grey with black lines making a "checkerboard"? That usually means that the texture is missing or something. If you've reloaded the map and it's still gone, it was probably a texture that came with the original RTCW maps, or some other map. Since a wooden texture is pretty common, I'm guessing it was one that came with the game.

Of course, it could have been a texture from a custom map or the GOTY edition. Did you delete/uninstall any maps before playing mp_island?

[the bindlestiff]

The culprit was "mp_interception." With just it and mp_island in Main, I get the dark gray with black lines. With it removed, the wood texture returns.

So how can an inactive map sitting on the hard drive affect one that's running in RAM? I didn't run "interception" at all, just moved it in or out of the Main directory.

There were seven textures listed in the Textures folder in the interception.pk3. I removed them one-by-one, but it didn't affect the texture loss in mp_island.

I found the following statements in the readme file:
Map base : New Map
Custom textures : Kingpin textures, a few altered original RTCW textures
Custom sounds : Kingpin sounds, some of my own
Custom models used : TiCal (broken down halftrack)
Custom prefabs : Some prefabs from RTCW maps mp_beach and mp_base


Note the "a few altered RTCW textures" statement. Can this be the cause of the problem? I still don't see how a map on the HDD can affect the running one, unless RTCW reads them ALL into memory.

Is there any way to fix the map? Removing the contents of the "textures" folder didn't do any good.

[Valiant]

Well I'm glad my ramblings helped you narrow down the source of the issue, now as for a fix, this might not be so hard.

My only guess is that perhaps the textures in question are not stored in the map/textures folder. As such, with the default paths (the ones used by RTCW for its own original textures) and identical names for those textures - they may serve as overwrites for the originals. This would happen much in the same way that a server configuration script for a bot waypoint may mess up someone's original server.cfg settings if its overdone or the same way a custom pk3 can overwrite a default model or skin in any Quake3 Engine based game.

To to summarize - their textures "should" be in a "mapname/texture/customtexturename.extension" type path but instead are using a default type path, and using an identical name to an original texture.
So you load the game, and it thinks it needs to look in mp_island.pk3 for the source image "main/textures/castle_wood/cwood_mo5cb.tga" (seeking the overwrite and following the path specified) but since that file does not exist in mp_island.pk3, it displays a missing texture instead.

It may sound crazy but what I would do is make a backup of mp_interception, your culprit file then see if that second path/filename I've highlighted in red is in fact in the pk3. If it is, simply delete it - and that map may just retain the path thereby reading the original RTCW wood texture, instead of its modified one in the overwritten (duplicated) default path. If this works it should cease the conflict with mp_island and other maps that use that wood texture. If not, you can restore your copy of interception from the backup and probably just contact the author via E-mail. If he/she isn't already aware of it, it's possible the map may need to have the original wood-texture's reapplied over his modified ones in radiant, or simply having his altered textures renamed and moved to a valid self-contained path for the map - then reapplied/compiled.

P.s. - Yes, it does read all of them into memory at once upon loading of the game, notice the wolfMP console window displays a list of your pk3's as it fires up? try deleting one of the pk3's while the game is running and it'll say its in use even if its not currently loaded

[CrapShoot]

I'm convinced that bindlestiff has a knack for finding all of the weird stuff :p

This link gives a patch for mp_interception for just the problem described:

http://www.planetwolfenstein.com/wil...terception.htm

[the bindlestiff]

Originally Posted by CrapShoot

I'm convinced that bindlestiff has a knack for finding all of the weird stuff :p

I just pay attention to details, I guess, and don't ignore discrepancies. Maybe weird things just gravitate to me or I gravitate to them! (you ought to see my bicycle)

I was in the midst of describing my efforts to fix Interception's bsp when your posting appeared. I had found a reference to the texture path that Val described and was trying to delete it from the bsp, but it kept crashing. Thanks for finding a ready-made solution. It hadn't occured to me to search the web! Both Island and Interception work fine now.

[Valiant]

Good job on the simple, direct solution. Leave it to me to get all in-depth on how to cast and mill your own engine components for a 1978 buick when you could just hit with a wrench and it'd start. Look on the brightside, at least now you know a little on what causes the issue.

[the bindlestiff]

Yeah, I can't stand not knowing how something works! I'm gradually picking up info in dribs and drabs that hopefully will make my waypointing better. Thanks for your help!

[Valiant]

You're quite welcome of course for what its worth. Two things about me that will become evident at some point. A) I love explaining things, maybe too much. B) I loves my edit button LOL.