Possible improvements for Austin's WP Editor

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

This is for everybody who uses Austin's waypoint editor for Pierre-Marie Baty's PODBot plugin.
I sent a PM with some things I had noticed to Austin, and he suggested opening a thread for everyone to read and maybe contribute some good ideas or report any shortcomings - so here it is...

What I generally like about the editor is the reduced menu depth and the shortened commands (like "pwp" for "pathwaypoint"). But there may still be room for improvement: Austin himself told me he had thought about having the menu for waypoint flags appear automatically whenever you're close to a waypoint, and I think that's a good idea.

Here are some points I have noticed or thought about:

1. The "add waypoint" menu shows 9 options (numbers 1-9), but the tenth option, "cancel" (number 0) doesn't show, although it works.

2. Maybe the commands could be shortened even further. In particular, I'm thinking of the "pwp delete" command. It could be shortened to "pwp del", perfectly matching "pwp add". I need this command very much, that's why I noticed... (see point 4)

3. Would it be possible to make map goal waypoints team-specific? This would enable PODBot to fully support csde-type maps, i.e. maps where the CT team must rescue hostages AND the T's must plant a bomb. Not all of these maps bear the "csde_" in front of their name, like csde_tropic (nice map, btw) does. de_italian and de_wallmart are other examples of csde-type maps, although their name doesn't show that.

4. Since jump waypoints and WPs located on narrow ledges or other high places like the top of a wall, a rooftop, etc are generally a pain in the *ss due to the many undesired connections that are drawn automatically, could the connection of waypoints be triggered between "fully manual" and "automatic" ?

Well, that's all I can think of right now - but maybe anyone of you guys out there has something to tell, some feedback to give? If so, don't hesitate...

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

1 and 2 have been fixed and will be in the next release of the bot ; 3 would mean adding a feature to POD-bot and I don't want that, I'm working on 4

*edit* done. Watch out for the next release.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

o_O Wow... that's quick. Sometimes you guys scare me...

But waaaait a minute... got one more!

I just witnessed one o' those stupid bots activating the hostages and then camping at the nearest camp waypoint 'cause I forgot to add the "nohostage" flag - but why would a CT bot with hostages camp, anyway?

Wouldn't it be the best idea to add the "nohostage" flag to camp waypoints by default?

Yeah, I know - I'm just a lazy slob, but still...

[Austin]

While you are at it PM, how about this one?
Keep paths from being created through func_illusionary.
This is a major hassle because you have to go back and manually delete the paths through these.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

camp waypoints with FL_NOHOSTAGE and no pathwaypoints through func_illusionaries implemented.

Is it worth a release ? I'm not sure but I prefer to wait as I'm quite sure some other crash bugs will be found sooner or later in the bot code.

[Austin]

Ok, PM great job time for me to offer something.

How about a kick A__ installer that
1) Always finds the correct directories from the registry
2) Installs Metamod
3) Version checks Metamod and only installs if it newer.
4) Version checks the bot, and only installs if it newer.
(HAS to have a version resource for this to work, Finally thanks pm! good job!)
4) Correctly edits liblist.gam
5) Creates shortcuts with icons to launch the game, the manual, etc.
6) Does what ever else you want it to do.

I already have most of the difficult things done.
Check out one of my map installers here.
You CAN'T install into an incorrect location!
http://austinbots.com/maps

In short.
How bout, a real release?

But if there are takers let split up the work and do it right. We need some proper documentation on Metamod, the bot, and waypoitning. We should include a great appointing bind script and better documentation on DS
commands, the difference between running DS and LAN. and the other top 10 asked questions.

I can do the install and much of the documentation.
I need someone to put the install files together including the suggested waypoints to ship for the default maps.

To start with let me do an installer for the bot as in and we can improve as we go.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Thanks a lot Austin for your -as usuals- invaluable participation!

However not sure I'm nitpicking here, but please consider that wrapping the bot files into an .exe installer won't please the Linux users. Why not rather make a standalone installer executable that will be extracted with the rest of the files in the podbot archive, and then let the user click on it once he has extracted the archive ?

The same installer code could perhaps be ported to Linux as well.

Anyhow, I'm impatient to see what you can come up with!

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Hmm.. that's great news. Those improvements will make waypointing much less unpleasant work.

@ Austin: Concerning that plan of making a real release, all I can say is that I could contribute the waypointing documentation and, obviously, some selected waypoints for the default maps. After all, I've spent all the last week sticking green bars into virtual landscapes and many a month walking through the mazes of other people's green bars and wondering what the heck they thought they were doing... In this respect, I think I know what I'm talking about.

@ both: With the custom map waypoints we could either make a download page that offers only best-quality waypoint files that have been checked to work perfectly with Pierre-Marie's PodBot release or even compile a bunch of map archives (like Austin did to demonstrate the installer) that features only selected maps (if needed, with some manipulations to guarantee 100% bot-compatibility) with good waypoints and maybe even high-quality overviews (if needed). That would be something that could make BU (or wherever it's hosted) really unique...

[CoCoNUT]

Hi, great ideas and work here . Please let the new waypoints be compatible to all other and older POD?-bots . I would recommend some improvements in the radio command system (bots following you etc.) and teamplay (different routes with hostage/VIP, Ts finding lost bomb etc.). Keep it UP!

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Originally Posted by CoCoNUT

Please let the new waypoints be compatible to all other and older POD?-bots

Yes, that's a good point. It would be ideal if waypoint files created with this editor could remain compatible with other POD-Bots. But as long as changes affect the waypointing interface (like shortended command lines, automatic setting of flags or different menus), I don't see much danger in this respect. As long as Austin or PMB don't introduce new features to the waypoints themselves, there should be no problem. (Btw, the last point is why PMB rejected my suggestion of making map goal points team-specific: This would involve a change in the waypoints themselves, thus resulting in incompatibilities.)
However, it seems that small changes in the bots' navigation and pathfinding routine can already affect the performance of a waypoint file, albeit to a very limited degree. During the change from PB 2.5 (old) over POXBot to the new PB plugin, I've noticed how some tricky connections didn't work 100% identically with each of the bots. And yesterday I read that MarD, the official E[POD]Bot waypointer, also had to change waypoints slightly to ensure perfect gameplay with E[POD]Bot, although the files are generally compatible.

The radio command system is another interesting idea. However, I can't judge that very well because I rarely use radio commands...

What do you mean with "different route with hostage/VIP", though?

The route bots choose when leading hostages can be strictly limited using the waypoint flag "FL_NOHOSTAGE". In a good waypoint file, those flags will prevent CT bots from camping, climbing ladders etc. while rescueing hostages. And if you think that a certain route over an open courtyard is too dangerous it's always possible to block all waypoints in too exposed areas for hostage rescueing.
I don't know if it's possible to make bots with hostages use routes with better cover by coding that into the bot source code, or if they don't already do that...

Concerning the VIP, I think the most important change has already happened: In old PB 2.5, he always took the shortest way, unless you radio-commanded him to follow you. Now, he can appear just about everywhere, which makes the whole affair less predictable for the Ts. Would you like to see the VIP's mobility limited (or let's say, guided) in any particular way?

Bomb finding... yes, that's another good point. I hate it when the last T bot spends his time camping somewhere in nowhere, with the bomb lying left to rot just two corners away...