Ammodepot (Cement island) waypoint project

[Nova2001]

Thoughts:

1> Wheeee!
2> I was a bit concerned about how often the map started out with all the allies following exactly the same path (run to left door, stock up on ammo from the lts, go down the pipe). After I got cut down a couple dozen times trying to go through the holes in the door, however, I decided that maybe they were smarter than me - the pipe seems safer.
3> The allied engineers weren't very good at planting dynamite, preferring to fight if at all possible. The covert ops never once tried to satchel the wire gate, which would have been helpful.
4> Does 'missing shaders' mean that the water randomly disappears and eerily floats through the pipes?
5> It kept saying "defence2 death," which I think means that bots were running into the spikes or something. I never actually saw that happen.
6> I like it. I had fun. Keep up the good work.

[TomTom]

Thanks for the feedback.
5> "defense2 death" is just a debug message i put in to know when the upper bunker is satchel-ed normally (vs defense2 nomore when it is removed because the "anttena" base is blown. They will be removed before release.

4> The version 1 map lacks the water in the sewer corner. If you want that fixed, download a copy of the version 2.0 map (2 of the links in the readme are version 2). There are 2 rocks above the upper bunker entrance that are dark (shaders problem I think) in version 2 but that is a minor nag point. I hope Storm Rising finds the time to do another map. His work was so close to being complete on this map IMO. (The one way team doors are my vote to get fixed if you read this Marco).

3> Don't know what I can do about that. The map exposes the bots to an intense fight at the gate (which makes the map fun IMO). I think that is one of 2 reasons the axis engineers don't get to defuse the dynamite at the ammo in time (the other being the high priority of rebuilding the gate). I hadn't noticed that problem on the allied side, but I will look for it now. The CvOps during my play were OK on satcheling the gate (when the allies survived the firefight). How many players were you playing with (humans and bots)? BTW I suspect this small map won't scale well to larger bot teams.

2> There are a few route improvements to do (especially out of the CP room). At the start there are 4 dynamite actions available (until the defenses are built) so that draws the engineers in the direction of the sewers. 40% of the time the engineers should go off the wooden peer to their right. I'll change that to 50%. I could try adding one right-hand camp for allied medics until the seawall antitank door is blown (someplace out of sight of the sniper). But really the rest need to go down the sewers in case an engineer is going for a fast win on the ammo pile. I also could make the allied mg nest higher priority during the fight for the sand barrier too.

1> I agree, thanks for sentiment.

- - -
Ah eureka (little eureka). At first spawn the allied engrs all go for the sewers because of the goalnums on the 2 antitank doors. So they don't follow the 50% rule till the first re-spawn. So who votes Bug and who votes Feature on the first run for the sewers? (I think I will make at least one available by goal 0)

[TomTom]

As promised for the original green day Ammodepot has now gone full beta. (for stopwatch, single obj and middle of campaigns).

Lots of tweaks, more routes. Bot-only-balance tests acceptably between 7 and 9 per team. To avoid bottle necks I suggest no more than 10 or so per team.

I suggest using version 2 of map (links in readme). Nova2001's "anttena" bonus now both a permanent blown upper bunker entrance and a small decrease in axis spawntime.

If you can't get it from here then take the attachment.

And when you visit my site pickup the latest Lighthouse WIP.

[Nova2001]

Hooray! Happy Green Day... next week?

[TomTom]

OK I have been back on this map this past week trying to perfect it for release by getting the axis engr bots defusing the dynamite in the depot. Unfortunately I came to the conclusion that it is near impossible;

(1) The map needs to be construct priority 1 so the axis will build the defenses ASAP to keep the allies out of the depot.

(2) The anttena (sic) base and the ammo shipment are just TOIs that target func_explosives and test as lower in priority than the defences.

(3) Even if the bots had time to rebuild the defences then attend to the defusing, once both of the defenses are built I have to disable the dyno-defuse combo actions to avoid making the allied engrs zombie outside the depot. I thought that adding defuse only actions (that would not be disabled) should take care of that but in testing these actions by themselves, I found the bots attending to minor priorities not the defuse actions. If any of the other waypointers know how to make a defuse-only action work on a TOI->func_explosive please post the details.

(4) and I tried using the dynamited event on the func_explosive but that does not work and the mapper did not define a scriptname for the TOI so I can't use the dynamited event on it like in CAHA_tavern.

Anyway while there may be no good solution to the defuse if both defenses are built, I did figure that if only I was dealing with func_constructibles and not func_explosives that I could arrange the defuse to be about the same priority as the 2 defenses. Originally I hoped to somehow replace the ammo shipment func_explosive by placing the func_constructible in the same place, but I found that seemingly if they consumed the same space that the new entity dynamited event was not triggered (though it did experience pain or death). I also got the cryptic SV_areaentities = MAXCOUNT message. and again with the old TOI having no scriptname property I don't think I can override it either.

So my solution is to add a new objective at the back of the dock near the mg to dynamite the big shells along the wall behind the crates. One Bot in three does come to defuse it because it is a priority defuse on a func_constructible.

So I am inviting feedback and suggestions since I will have to re-balance the map;

Option 1: Allies have to dynamite at the big shells only to win (the old ammo shipments will be absent from the map). (I seem to be able to override the limbo camera for the ammo shipment so the limbo menu should be correctible)

Option 2: Allies have to dynamite both the old ammo shipment AND the big shells at the back to win. To balance this I might have to add a time extension if they dynamite one of the two within the 30 minute limit.

Option 3: Allies have to dynamite both to win, but if the timelimit is hit the win will still be accorded to the Allies if enough objectives are complete. (e.g. They own the command post, have blown one of the two ammo supplies and have blown the anttena base.)

Or come up with your own preferred combo.

[TomTom]

Ok here is the final beta currently being tested for release this weekend. Check the Limbo menu for the new objectives. Please report any critical problems ASAP. thx

[TomTom]

Fine so it is released at 0.97. A few more small changes (ladder tweak, new speaker, route changes) and another cvar option.

Fritzbot_BalanceIt = 1 means Allies can win with 3 objectives at 30 minutes namely CP Anttena and one of two ammo objectives.

But for those who prefer a simpler and easier game Fritzbot_BalanceIt = 3 allows allies a win if either ammo objective is blown.

Fritzbot_BalanceIt = 0 or 2 mean allies MUST blow both ammo objectives.

And that is all for me for a few weeks. If there is interest I will return next month with some WIP updates.

[nedd3h]

Originally Posted by TomTom

And that is all for me for a few weeks. If there is interest I will return next month with some WIP updates.

there is always interest in your work

[tinyrodent]

Playing again as Allied Soldier... I made the following observations:

1. The vast majority of the bots take the tunnel, even after the front walls are blown. This doesn't make sense to me. It's much easier to blow the sand pile from the front but they don't even try.

2. They never tried to construct the command post. This should be the highest priority after the area is accessible.

3. I think that a barrier which can be satcheled should be high priority for covert ops but low for engineers. The engys just get in the way of the satchel, and then their dynamite is a hazard later.

What is a TOI?

[TomTom]

Thanks for the feedback.
1. Initially the engineers will take the sewer and plant at the back because the anti-tank sea doors have to be blown before the front sand pile dynos can be active.
Now in my experience with Humans it is hard blowing the sand pile from the front unless multiple dynamites get planted (Axis can camp on the gantry protected from most allied fire and the fixed mgs are murder). Now the bots probably blow the sand pile from the back mostly because they survive better getting there. I could possibly tweak the waypoints to encourage the bot to navigate towards the front plants but there is no simple way to ensure a higher success rate. I think I would like to hear from others if they think it is wrong to blow from the back.
2. I left the command post as normal priority because if I make it high priority the Allied Cvops do not focus as well as they should on the 2 barriers and More importantly it would draw axis engineers out of the depot when they are needed to build the barriers and defuse at the ammo. Now I could increase the priority but to avoid the latter problem I would have to disable the Axis building it soon after the start of the game (e.g when the anti-tank doors are blown. Also I don't want the allied engrs backtracking to builld the CP say after blowing the depot gates, instead of being focussed on the ammo. A problem with Fritzbot Priorities is they are fixed at the beginning of the game and the waypointer can only turn the related actions on off during the play not shuffle the priority logic.
3. To do what you ask I would disable the dyno at the depot gates to favor the cvop satchel. But then if the Cvop s were dead the engrs would look like idiots standing there waiting for 30 or more seconds for the next wave of cvops. You see I don't have direct control of the priority here either. I can change the construct and defuse priority but not the dyno priority directly. The only influence on the dyno priority is how many other high priority actions are there for the engr to do (i.e. indirect). Adding an engr camp nearby could draw an allied engr away from planting the dyno but likewise since they are equal priority, you would sometimes view the engrs as idiots waiting for cvops.
4. I am afraid I tend to frame my answers for multiple audiences with much detail. Advanced waypointer terms like func_constructible and trigger_objective_info (TOI) are some of the software objects that make up the original map. A TOI defines the area in the map where an objective exists and provides a link to another object as well as the hint as to what action is required. E.G. a func_explosive that is defined as being able to experience pain can be anything from a grenade-able barrier to a dynamitable objective that can't be rebuilt/repaired. Now a TOI that points to that func_explosive can communicate some of the state info about the func object to other parts of the game and so in waypointing for Fritzbot TOI entities are very important.