[stefanhendriks]

Here is my mail to the HL Coders list:

Although with good intentions to fix stuff for bots, Valve did it again and broke bot support.

I see the bit flags are now working again, thats very nice. Although it does not matter anymore for any bot author on CS as we adapted our own fix a loooong time ago. Nevertheless we switch back to ensure we are not doing things that the engine does not like.

I also see my bots do not detect a new round anymore, i have done this

via:

edict_t* pfnFindEntityByString(edict_t *pEdictStartSearchAfter, const char *pszField, const char *pszValue) {

// Counter-Strike - New Round Started

if (strcmp(pszValue,"info_map_parameters") == 0) {

// New round started.

Game.SetNewRound(true);

Game.SetRoundTime(gpGlobals->time);

}

RETURN_META_VALUE (MRES_IGNORED, NULL);

}

This worked all th etime, it worked for CS 1.5 and CS 1.6. My question

is:

Is there a new way to detect round start? Is there a message sent or is there some other method to know the new round has started? Since the new Steam update i am trown back into fixing a bug again that is not even mine.

Suggestion:

- When releasing fixes for bots, TEST THEM FIRST.

Wait, let me rephrase that:

- When releasing ANYTHING, TEST IT FIRST (and ofcourse, with everything. Run a bot server, run a metamod server)

I don't mind waiting a bit longer if i am sure the next STEAM updates do actually do what they claim to do.

-Stefan

http://realbot.bots-united.com

Here is a reaction (from botman).

S. Hendriks wrote:

> Suggestion:

> - When releasing fixes for bots, TEST THEM FIRST.

>

> Wait, let me rephrase that:

> - When releasing ANYTHING, TEST IT FIRST (and ofcourse, with

> everything. Run a bot server, run a metamod server)

Actually, it's not really Valve's responsibility to test a server with Metamod, AdminMOD, AMX, bots or any other type of plugin. Valve makes no guarantee that a new release won't break third party applications (although they try not to do this when they can). Valve obviously can't test each new release with EVERY single third party plugin, stats package, or server management tool that's out there. Some stuff will break. It's up to the plugin, stat, or server management author to check out their third party tool with each release and fix any problems that might arise. You can usually contact someone at Valve directly if you can't figure out what the problem is (or if no one else in the community can figure out what the problem is).

Since there has never been any well defined interface between MODs and plugins (in terms of how the MOD and plugin interacts with each other), whenever the MOD code changes how something behaves, it's likely to break some plugins that are "leaching" on to that data. Since not every plugin author handles the same problem the same way, some plugins will break and others will be uneffected.

This is just a fact of life if you are hooking into a MOD without that MOD's knowledge or consent. If a MOD team wanted to REALLY nasty, they could change how every single function was implemented each time a new version of the MOD was released making it very difficult for plugins to keep updated and working with new releases. Luckily, none of the Valve's MODs have ever done this, but occasionally performances changes in the MOD code effect how things are done and require plugins to be modified to work properly.

I also had replied on that:

I do see your point, but i don't really agree with that. I understand that changes can break things, but fixes should not! Let me paste here exactly what the STEAM Update says:

- Cstrike FL_FAKECLIENT fix (3rd-party bots should work fine in cstrike once more)

This is partially true! FL_FAKECLIENT is fixed, Yet bots do NOT work fine at all.

Btw, i think Valve CAN test their product with the most used programs out there. Simply run a PODBot server , launch it, add bots, run for 5 minutes. Done. If this was done before release STEAM then the bug was already found (so you can see for yourself the statement 'bots should work fine' is not true) and so the statement should never be made in the first place.

Don't get me wrong , i am not trying to bash Valve at all, as i apreciate their hard work, yet sometimes i get frustrated with things like this. This is not the first time that happened, and i never said a thing on the list before... This time however, i did report it and i hope something will be done about it.

On Bots-United we are discussing possibilites on an information channel with Valve? IF Valve is interested in such a thing we can provide support from that scene and make sure things work, and keep on working with every release.

-Stefan