Pagyra's suggestions
 

I apologize if there are problems of translation - translated by Google.

Ideas:

1. Enter the voice chat bots, as is done in standard Zbot - helps in game with human teammates and in during round can mark places where located the enemy for bots - by coordinating joint actions bots.

2. Add possibility of tactics - Rush, Search and Destroy, Wait and Clean, Random,...
Changing tactics allow points team leader at the beginning of each round.

3. Add a habit of bots (with the tactics of waiting and searching) to walk step.

4. Standard tactics of behavior of CT-bots may change but the basis remains the standard. They must protect bombplace, but in the case of finding a bomb that fell or the Bombers call teammate, and still on patrol nearby range. Live teammates will seek out and destroy enemies, but in case of attack teammates rush to him.

5. Add a habit of bots to move closer or along to obstacles and walls.

6. Add a habit of bots try not to shoot from the stairs, adding the desire to rise or down the stairs sooner - to stabilize the shooting.

7. Add a habit to sit down for firing at long distances .

8. In the case of the sniper to move streif and diagonal or zig-zags, hiding behind large obstacles, move towards him. Sitting down and firing 2 bullet between 2 shots of sniper and move at the time when he aims or hidden.

9. If the enemy shield - throw a grenade at enemy feet and moving around enemy and seek to come to enemy side or back. Shooting in the protruding parts of the body and head, especially if the enemy is revealed for the shot.

10. Teach bots shoot burst.

A) Add a habit of bots to shoot a burst from Famas at a far distance, but in the short to try to shoot automatically.

B) Add a habit of bots to shoot a burst of Glock in one enemy at close range, but several opponents at long range try to shoot automatically.

11. To create a realistic behavior of the bot - be a better view of the deviation from the direction of motion was only in the event of fire or hiding at obstakles.

12. If the bot heard the noise - he must look at the most remote but visible by bot waypoint with the shortest path from the point where there was a noise to his current position.

13. If the bot does not see the enemy, but sees that the wall come the bullets, the bot should turn to the enemy firing position.

Native language is Russian, so sorry for bad english.

Re: Suggestion
 

In the FAQ there is an mark in text:
pb_aim_deviation_y (value) - HORIZONTAL (left / right) ... Should pb_aim_deviation_x

Make automatic learning with automatic creation of camp, jump, plant and other waypoints in the game bots with people, preservation of the direction / angle of view. Perhaps this is to modify autowaypoints and increase the limit on the number of waypoints.
Example, camp - stay on one place (region) more than 8 seconds with save the change in direction / angle of view and pozition.

Once tested the bots:
For the test took 3
ZBot (CSBot)
NiceBot
PODBot

The result is very sad on the best settings - PODBot - despite its very cheat habit should be aiming for the enemy through walls lost most realistic ZBot (CSBot), and then having the tactics and aggression NiceBot. The only note that thriftiness PODbots.

Re: Suggestion
 

For angle stuff in HL/CS it's so - y is horizontal (move the crosshair left/right), x is vertical (move the crosshair up/down).

I don't have any good algorithm to make auto covering map with waypoints. Changing the current navigation method would need to recode the whole bot (I don't have time for it) with losing the functinality (door opening by buttons, lift usage, jump etc).

I have tested podbot mm against CZERO bot and I've got 90% efficiency of podbot mm bots comparing to CZERO bots (I mean - CZERO bots = 1000 frags, podbot mm bots = 900 frags i.e.). The only comparable test is under CSDM - when the money doesn't affect the weapon the bot may have. Otherwise that affect next results in next rounds - if the team is losing at the beginning - with that skill CZERO bots have it's impossible to get back to the good money state.

Re: Suggestion
 

As for everything else - you try to do it?

Re: Suggestion
 

No problem. I'am able to understand almost everything You wrote - not that bad like You think it could be.

That works correctly with ZBOTS (CZERO bots) only on default maps. How they react on custom maps - how they can tell You where they are?

I like this, but I have no idea yet how to implement it in code.

If the 2 is done, this one would be easy to add. But first I would need more time (which I miss) to solve 2.

That is still concerning to tactics. Yes this bot is missing tactics code, but that would need more time to figure out how to make them more human-like.

They are using waypoints and it's up to a waypointer how he is doing waypoints. If waypoints are placed in center areas - they go there. If waypoints are placed near walls, they go there. The code checks only which waypoints are more danger, so bots are trying to use the safest path (at least some of them).

I believe even on stairs they still aim better than You and humans, so that shouldn't affect much the gameplaying...

I have to think of it. It shouldn't be very hard to implement that into the code.

Yeah - that is also reasonable. I have to think of it (how to do it).


At least that part with throwing a grenade near the enemy should be easy to do (if the enemy is using the shield)

There are only 2 such weapons like that, so I don't think it's eanough worth my time to think of it...


That I didn't understand. Please - rephrase.

I like this idea, but then the bot would change the direction to look at all the time. The question is - how to determine which noise should affect the bot (to force them to look at that direction) and which one shouldn't? Another thing is - it would require a lot of calculations to do each frame (to find that closest visible waypoint), so it would negatively affect the server performance.

You have to know one thing - the bot doesn't see the world around him like You do. The code calculates if the bot should be able too "see" the enemy, if he is in a distance he should "hear". So the bot doesn't see everything around him, but the code just is focusing on some more important objects (like players, weapons, obstacles). Bullets don't belong to that group, so bots aren't reacting on them. Because there is a lot of bullets around bots (since everybody is firing almost all the time), that would need to make a lot of calculations if any of bullet could be "visible" or not by a bot (and that would again negatively affect the server's performance). I believe after that explanation You understand the dificultiness of implementing Your idea.

Re: Suggestion
 

Voice chat bots is done by exhibiting special labels for the regions with waypoints in ZBOTS (CZERO bots)
For realization tactics for all bots may want special to change is desire bots to follow / cover for teammates, in depending on the chosen tactics.
Might be inclined to make bots for joint action by the pair. Protection and cover each other in a pair and dividing the opponents in range and armament.
Also, you may want to display the individual pairs formed aggressiveness. A surviving single bot desire to re-organize the pair. And the desire to be near the bomb had dropped.
In other words, do the tactics on the basis of changes in priorities during the round, depending on events.
in other words -
Bots need to try to look in the same direction where they move, except if they both move and fire with the enemy or hide behind obstacles
I agree about turning on the sound and negatively affect the server performance ... then it is possible to put only the effect of the closest sounds (except those that created teammates)?
But it is possible to catch the same appearance near the bot decal holes from bullets, sounds, sprites ricochets, flares and smoke(while there was no alarm from the bot).

Re: Suggestion
 

Suggestion:
separate list of names for bots into parts for T and part CT
very useful when simulating clan wars, etc.

Re: Suggestion
 

At the this moment there is only one type of bots with the same priorities, aggression, team play and the choice of type weapons.
You can do several different "types" bots?
Snipers, rusher, camper, random - with different for each type of bots, in priorities, aggression, team play and the choice of type weapons.

Re: Suggestion
 

I can already do this with the bot pb_menu.
and i can set there priorities and aggression with the pb_menu.
i use randome choich and all bot's are diffrent in there actions and weapons.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

It is worth to introduce a more obvious differences of behavior between types of bots, denoting for each type of habits in tactics of behavior.

Snipers must be preferred to use the camp waypoints, but to be the most aggressive on the behavior, but try to work in pairs(average teamwork). Prefers to move a step. Neutral type of bot - rushes to the goal with the battle.

Rusher maximum aggression and minimum teamwork. Looks, but does not use camp waypoints, prefers to run. Attack type of bot - rushes to the goal with the battle.

Camper minimum aggression and minimum teamwork. Must be preferred to use the camp waypoints, prefers to move a step. Defensive type of bot - defends the area.

Random average aggression and maximum teamwork. Looks camp waypoints, prefers to run. Attack type of bot - uses the tactics of hit and run, hitting the enemy (but not killing, or when it detects multiple opponents) try to get around.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

Given the distinction between different types of behavior of bots, and demand for different waypoints for different types of behavior bots - propose to create a plug-in for automatic processing and creation of maps of waypoints as is done in zbot.

And also want to create a plug-in "realistic behavior of real player"
carrying out binding waypoints to the active objects (buttons, doors, hostages, break the limits, stairs) and conditions with passive objects - low light, smoke / fogging "review sprites, the possibility of tactical lumbago thin walls and positions on the sounds / and conditions.

I propose to do this separate plug-ins - as I understand that the core / basis change is difficult.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

To begin creating an automatic 'autowaypointer' is simply to arrange the usual Waypoints all over the map - autowaypoint available during normal movement of the player, then arrange the Waypoints that will be available in case of jumps and squats, then depending on the proximity of objects to place / replace Waypoints indicating their type of bomb / spawn / hostage / camp / ...

Zbot - apparently made in this way - because when you create them to see the movement of the bot waypoints on the map.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

There are 3 different types of waypoint styles so far.
Manual waypointing (found in RCBot, YaPB, e[POD]bot, Podbot MM etc...)
Auto Waypointing (JoeBot, zBot/CSBot, jkbotti)
Follow Waypointing (RealBot) *Will follow human players and create waypoints accordingly*

I suppose if KWo could get the source for auto-waypointing from JoeBot or JkBotti then maybe he could implement. But also think about how much time and work that may need. I've noticed his last bugs and fix list, and most of them are quick easy fixes. :S

This is a great suggestion, but I don't know if KWo can handle this alone. If someone else were to help implement the auto-waypoint source into podbot mm, this could definitely become a reality.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

Only the laziest waypointer could support the auto-waypointing idea... :P
I'm going to take a little break again from coding pb mm. I was working hardly last couple of months on its code. Even if those changes/bugfixes wasn't big, they were consuming a lot of my time... So I'm not going to implement anything new for a while (only eventually bug-fixes in urgent cases).

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

Then there is no sense to write new ideas

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

I would like to add regarding the organization of voice chat, voice radio - that the bot could have to designate targets even without a special designation zones and Other tips for making them bind to the names of textures, lights, materials (on hearing the sounds of them) so let's say you can immediately make binding on the word "door , Ventilation, windows, stairs, box, water, in darks, ... "
Also, let's say you can do attitude and a binding target position to the bot, or team-mate (denoted by) as the words "under me, beside me, above me, behind me (you)".
His attitude towards the situation of individual objects, "he was behind the door," he's sitting right after the box. " Or even showing the targets - "he bombplace A for the most distant from your box"
with respect to the names of decorative sprites or models - it is under a bush, "it behind a tree," it behind a car.
So in principle it is possible to make radio team even better than Zbots.
The main thing that this team radio as information reaches not only to players but also to the bots) making their game even better, realistic and well thought tactically. Again, only in the case of designation must be made priorities of conduct for bots (depending on the situation, position and strength of the enemy and the team towards the target (it is desirable to introduce some kind of database to designate areas for bot during a round), mate.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

stupid idea

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

Care to give some insight on why it's not a good idea?
Or maybe some suggestions to enhance his idea to make it better?

There has to be some reasons why it's not a good idea, there is 2 parts to every argument. By immediately dismissing something, it looks and feels like you are doing this on purpose in a mean way.

I've had lots of my ideas to improve a game immediately dismissed and it doesn't give a good feeling. ;)
Please be patient with other forum users.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

yes..i ll give it to you via pm

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

It wasn't a good reason.
And I'm gonna pretend you never sent it to me.

If you're not going to give any suggestions for improvement on ideas, then there is no need for you to post on them. There are better outlets for your anger, don't dispose of it here on the forum.

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

It should be remembered that the bot is armed adversaries, and at the beginning of the next round of weapons purchased in view of the enemy, and he acted within round with tactics against such weapons.</SPAN>

Re: Pagyra's suggestions
 

Similarly, you can try to make autowaypointing (partially) - arranging types of waypoints according to the names of textures, lighting, materialam.Tak when you open the door, walk in the dark and loud material (metal or water), with the introduction of ventilation, broken windows, rises / down stairs - the bot should pay attention to these sounds (send in sight if not in a state of battle), and if he performs the same actions that must, in such cases, try to move a step, but not run.

It seems necessary to arrange types of waypoints and to the individual subjects (box /...) - given that they can use as a shelter - you want to put a number campwaypoints - "close" means in the adjacent waypoints directly with objects, but the bot is using them as a camp must no direct sight of the object.

If the bot is in combat and the enemy had disappeared from sight behind the object (box /...) or the angle of the building armed with a bot (deagle, machine guns or rifles) can continue burst and shoot through the obstacle. Also required to do with the decorative sprites and models depending on the thickness of the obstacles.

Along all the walls need to arrange it campwaypoints.
To prioritize traffic by type of waypoints according to the weapons - snipers armed with a shield and critically wounded bots try to move it to campwaypoints.
Bots armed any other weapons in the normal state, try to move through normal waypoints.

I understand that in the above-out will be a lot of translation errors. So write sentences that are incomprehensible - what I need to rephrase.