C4 detection bug
 

It just popped in my mind again after reading a topic.
Bots can not detect a dropped bomb when it's not fully visible. If the bomb is laying on the floor partly in the wall and partly visible, they can not pick up the bomb ( well I've never seen a T pick up such a located bomb, maybe if it is directly over a waypoint )
When you have the bomb, just stand closely to a wall and face it of course and drop the bomb. It will now lay in the descripted position.
And if I'm not mistaking, also with slope ( I hope this word is right ) floors ( floors that are going up or down like the one going from CT spawn to bombsite A on de_dust2 )

If people want to test this it can be easily set up as follows:
- start any de_map
- go T
- only add 1 T-bot ( no CT-bot/s )
- when you start a round with the bomb, stand closely in front of a wall and drop the C4 so it's partly into the wall ( or the slope floor )
The bot will not be able to detect the bomb.
If you do this, put the roundtime high enough ( above 5 minutes ) so you will be sure that it really can't be seen/picked up by the bot in the given roundtime.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

What is the latest version (number) You have tested it with?

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Sorry, I should have known better.
V3B19l

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Since I was working on that code in V3B19m version, such reports are useles for me (since I don't know if now it works better or not). Please try it with V3B19m version (when You can).

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I don't see the connection between "can not detect dropped bomb partly visible" and "do not only follow shortest path to planted bomb".
Anyway, I'll ask dor123 to test it ( he's pretty active on testing )

Re: C4 detection bug
 

The connection is - they were always going (everyone) the same way (one by one) so if there were some campers Ts they could really easy kill all CTs coming from the same direction one by one... That happened a lot of times, so they weren't able to defuse any bomb...

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I don't see the connection either...

Anyways, Sc0rp, I will test this bug as much as I can (Ignore private message) untill i'm positive that they can/can't know the location of the bomb when it's partly in the walls.


All the best,
dor123:thumbup:

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Well, I used to notice that the bots would only try to enter the bomb site by on direction, instead of the 2 or more ways to it.

Sometimes it would be annoying, but by some miricale the Counter-Terrorists made it into the Bombsite.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

The guys means that this bug happens when the bomb is droped, not planted - see the difference. :P

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Yeah. You are right. It looks like I'm really tired... :(

Re: C4 detection bug
 

OK, here's the thing.
I tested it and it seems that even if the bomb is hidden, as long as most of the bomb is shown the bot would probably be able to locate and pick it up. But there were few places in de_dust2 that I was able to hid the bomb deep enough in the wall so most of it wasn't shown and the bot could NOT locate and pick it up.
As you can see in the pictures, the bot was not able to find the bomb in picture "HalfLife03", "HalfLife04" and "HalfLife07".
In HalfLife08 the bomb was well hidden but the bot somehow was still able to pick it up.

It's pretty hard dropping the bomb on "slope" floors so part of it will sink in the ground so I couldn't test that but i'm pretty sure they always pick it up when it's on those "slope" floors.
i must admit i didn't gave the bot alot of time but he was very close to the bombs in those events and even looked at it sometimes so i'm pretty sure i'm right. i'll test it again just to be 100% positive about this :)
oh, and you need to wait few seconds to picture to load after you click on it.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Thx Storm, lol.
I was starting to think Kwo understood my message wrong.
Everybody makes mistakes :closedeyes:

The bot was able to pick up the bomb in picture HalfLife08 cause there is a camp-waypoint in the corner where the bomb is located.
So the bot picked it up by achieving the goal-camp-waypoint, not achieving the bomb-pick-up.
If the place has no waypoint or waypoint-path, they fail to detect the bomb ( if it is not fully visible )
I'm sure of it they also can't when it comes to the slope floors.
You probably dropped the bomb by coincidence on a waypointed place.
Yeah I said 5 minutes roundtime but normally the bot would be able to pick up the bomb in about 10 sec after they come near to it.
Thx for testing.
p.s.: It is not necessary to drop the bomb in a corner like you did in your pictures. Even a straight wall is enough to let the bug appear.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Well, isn't this a good thing?
Sometimes when I play with humans they can't locate the bomb, however, they try by using their mini-gps radar.

Also those pictures are pretty big in size. ;)
May I recomend using xat.com Jpeg optimizer?

Anyway, isn't it a rare case where a bomb is mostly hidden in a wall?
or even in a slope where you had it?

I normally see a bot with the bomb running to a bombsite rather than camping in a corner, however, a straight wall is better to imagine where a dead bot might have had the bomb thrown.

Also, scorp mentioned the need of a waypoint near by to help the bot locate the bomb, well I'm sure it is needed, but I'm not quite sure you need a waypoint near by to have the bot(s) know where it is.

Also, I think when a bomb was dropped, the CTs were to camp near it. I thought I remember seeing that, might have been a YaPB thing.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I'm 100% with you exept for the "isn't it good" part and i'll try using xat.com next time :).

I tried it with straight wall and it didn't quite apear :wacko: am i confused?
No wait, I probably didn't do it well I only tried once on an VERY easy to locate wall...

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Well, its not that I was saying that it was good that the dropped bomb couldn't be found.
I was trying to refer to the bomb not being found or picked up once-in-awhile.

I've seen human players have sight of the bomb, but do not try to fetch for fear for a CT camping near by. Therefore, he chose a different route so they could see all positions surrounding the dropped bomb. It's one of those things, a human could process, rather than a bot. Also I've seen human players camp near a dropped bomb and not pick it up right away. It's one of those concious awarnesses that humans have aquired over millions of years. :)

Anyway, snice I'm going off track, a bomb not picked up all the time seems fine to me, and more human-like. I guess a goal for AI Developers are to make a bot so well, that the humans playing with them, can't realize they are bots. And so far CS Bot and Brothers in Arms are closest.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Yeah I thought that's what you ment by "isn't it good?". You're absolutly right. It can't be found all the time right? There must be at least one thing that is human-like in any bot so, :sorcerer:*poof* and there you go! You got yourself a human-like thingy with PODBot too! Isn't that great?

After all, as Ancient said, it's pretty rare that the bots are dropping the bomb in those hard-to-find corners.
Even if it does happen, who cares if your enemies (if you are a CT) can't find the bomb and plant it? Besides, you could always pick it up yourself if you are a T and bots can't handle themselves.:sailor:

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Well, it's not to say: that this isn't a bug, and avoid the issue completely.

I don't know if this would be an easy fix or not, maybe give a demo of this bug?

Re: C4 detection bug
 

You can't pick up a bomb when you are dead and then the round can end with a bunch of stupid-walking-around-Tbot's desparately looking for the C4.
No that wasn't exactly what I meant so then you would have to put waypoints all over every possible wall/crate/object where the bomb can partly fall in to, once it is dropped.

@Kwo: actually the same goes for a planted bomb too, when it's planted and it isn't fully visible after then, CT bots will never be able to locate.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

but sitll, what are the odds that they will drop it in a so hard-to-find place - only once in awhile so I really don't see the problem if it happens once in a bit... :confused:

Re: C4 detection bug
 

It happens more than you think or than you experience.
Even if it occurs not often, it remains a bug.
T bots must be able to detect a dropped C4 and CT bots must be able to detect a planted C4 ( all partly visible )

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Let's leave it up to KWo. :D

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Sure thing, it is a bug and would be nice to have it fixed, but should it be a priority to fix? It doesn't seem to be a critical bug.

How often does it happen? I really don't see it happening when I play with the bots. Especially when I play de_dust, bots always seem to find the bomb. :D Can anyone make a demo of this?

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I can't make any demos; you know how my situation is.
I never called it a priority bug and probably never will, so yes it is not very urgent to let it fixed.
Also I guess it goes the same for dropped weapons, defuse kit and any objects I forgot.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

If it's not so urgent bug, why the hell it needs to be elaborated on 3 pages? Should I close this topic or what? When I'll have time to work again on pb mm, I'll try to fix it. Currently I'm busy by the work on ChickenMod Orange Edition (for AMX X).

Re: C4 detection bug
 

First, we needed to figure out if the bug shows up often or is it occuring once in a while, and if it affects the game much.

Second, according to the answer of the first question we needed to figure out if it's urgent or not, and where to place it in the list of priorities.

That's pretty much why this thread was elaborated to 3 pages :)


A little off track: Could you (KWo) give me a link to the orange edition of ChickenMod when it's done? D:

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Sorry for double posts, but I can't for some reason edit my posts. :O No EDIT Button.

Anyways, I tried the new binaries (V3B19o), and there was a problem or two.

I added one T, and dropped the bomb here. Sometimes he found it, and sometimes he didn't.

When I put it here and here and here, the bot could'nt find it.

Now moving to planted bomb.
I've found a place that they (the CTs) cannot find and defuse the bomb.
If you plant it here, they will simply stand above the green box and wait untill it will explode, or wait untill it almost explodes and try to run.

Obviously that's a big issue because I can plant there as much as I want and they simply won't defuse it.

P.S:
I gave the CT 2 minutes to defuse the bomb before it exploded (mp_c4timer 120).

Some other pictures:
[img=http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/448/spraykn8.th.jpg]
here is the bot on the green box, right above the bomb: [img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3759/abovebombrg0.th.jpg]
[img=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2456/abovebomb2gy8.th.jpg]

Re: C4 detection bug
 

You can edit Your last post during 24 hours only. It's OK - otherwise nobody would notice the fact You wrote something new...
The problem with defusing - they are trying to find the closest waypoint to the bomb, they are going to that position, then sometimes - from that position they aren't able to reach the bomb... I was trying to avoid that a bit, but it seems no lucky yet... :(
Anyway thanks for the info about not finding bombs. I though that should be fixed, but it looks it is not... :(

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Thx for the testing dor123. You even found a map-related-planted-bomb-bug which I wasn't aware of ( it's completely visible but couldn't be located )
Maybe this will give a green light for waypointers to add more CT goal-waypoints on bombsites if this is possible?

I was always talking about the bug also appearing with a straight wall but all of your screenshots shows the C4 in corners. I will show you what I mean by a little draw on one of your screenshots.
You will notice that those places also gives the bot(s) a lot of trouble unless there is a waypoint right on that spot ( simply coincidence then )

p.s.: try to plant the bomb on A of de_dust2, by standing on 1 of the 2 climbable green boxes and make your plant that it falls down on the floor beneath you and the bomb is partly into the crate you are standing on.
Bots then also can't locate ( same as the problem when it is dropped )
Please provide with some pics if you like so I can say you did it the way I meant it.
Thx for your time.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I was shocked.

When I planted the bomb here and about here, the bot simply couldn't locate and defuse it. He walked around like crazy, circling the bomb, looking at the sky for few minutes, going to a camp waypoint, ducking in it, going back, jumping on the box above the bomb, etc. etc....
What's funny in that, is that if he would've jumped on the green box like the second time in the first time, above the bomb, when i planted it here, he could've defuse it...

looking at the sky
-"-
ducking towards box
looking at the bomb
-"-
-"-
running when almost explodes

EDIT: Oops sorry I didn't tried V3B19p... I'lll test and let you know.

EDIT2: Tested and here are results (Look next post).

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Results.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Looks like the bug is still present in V3B19p.

Your second previous post ( the one with the most screenshots ): The first pic is exactly what I meant for you to test. Thanx!
But I find it really weird that in your second picture the CT also wasn't able to defuse although the bomb is fully visible ( at least I never experienced the bug in those situations )
The other pics shows other non-related bugs.

Your latest previous post ( the one with the pics directly shown but in smaller format ): T-bots clearly still aren't able to locate/pick up those dropped C4's and CT-bots still aren't able to locate/defuse those planted C4's.
But I'm truly amazed that the CT could defuse it from such place in your third pic!!

Again thanx for helping illustrate this akward bug.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

About this:

I was trying about 10 times to drop the bomb in the exactly the same position like on the picture and Ts were able to pickup it everytime. I have even recorded the demo with it...

About this:

I was placing the bomb somewhere near that box (near it - in that corner) and the CTs were able to find and defuse it. They weren't trying to reach that bomb from the top.

About this:

Same like above - I was placing the bomb there (behind the box) and the CT bot found it.

In all above cases - please make sure You are really using V3B19p version. Just write in the console:
meta list
and see what it says.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

I couldn't open the third picture so I don't know what picture are you talking about.
But yeap, i'm using V3B19p. Does the fact I made the bots stupid (1) matters?

Re: C4 detection bug
 

It shouldn't but I was testing it with bots (100).
The third picture shows the bot standing on the top of the box and the bomb is placed on the floor between this box and the door/gate (on the right side of the box from the spectator point of view).

Re: C4 detection bug
 

At the third picture I think that was V3B19n or V3B19o.
And yes, I made sure it was V3B19p when I tested, but I only tested once each scenario.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Then it could be dependant on bot skill?

@dor123: Maybe test it with more bots. The more bots, the bigger the chance someone can locate such dropped/planted bombs.
Or maybe play 2vs2 or something like that and give all bots skill 100 like KWo did.
See if it still occurs then. If not; problem found.

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Hope I can find the time...

Re: C4 detection bug
 

During a day or 2 I'll post another beta with some improvement of finding bombs partially visible. That what I did already only partially solved the problem (I know that and nobody doesn't need to report it again).

Re: C4 detection bug
 

V3B19q.
Didn't feel like testing anymore, plus I think it's pretty much enough.
Tested once.

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blablanl5.jpg
http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nicehs5.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=loljx1.jpg

Re: C4 detection bug
 

Let's call this issue suspended, shall we?
When I get back into bot-business, I'll probably test that perticular bug first and provide with lots of images ( unless I do not encounter any more trouble )