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Interesting update to CS today
Sry...wasn't sure where to put this, so move it to an appropriate place
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
Thanks for the update Duracell !
I'll move this to the FPS gamers forum. Nice job too to the official CS bot developer who also became a member of our community, TurtleRocker ! :) |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
So what do you think the -dll commandline thingy really means? We can load a dll from the commandline as opposed to editing the liblist.gam file?
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
I have just gotten some confirmation about the -dll commandline.
It overrides the setting in the liblist.gam |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
And they still neglect to add offline play. Bah.
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
All old the bots will still not function. The new entities will not get imported, and selecting the shield will cause a crash. Because the function structure has been updated, this should cause failures when using an old bot.
Just for laughs I installed POD bot 2.5. The bots do join the game without it crashing, but in my case they don't do anything at all but jump up and down at spawn. As expected, the server gets all messed up doing weird things, and buying the shield causes it to crash and burn. |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
One could write a metamod plugin that would export the missing entities. It should not be that hard to do...
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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It's possible, but a lot of effort imo, and not worth it. *edit* You will also have to capture some of the messages which have changed format and translate them into something the old bot can understand. For example the weapon list message no longer works as it did in CS 1.5. The message changes probably kills the whole idea because doing translations may not be possible (did not really think of this one much). We have better things to do than resurect dead bots from the grave - right? |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
right.
[BTW I'm still waiting for your reply to that email discussion we started a while ago ;) ] |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
About this fix for 3rd party bots. Perhaps someone can explain me why this happens since the steam update:
http://forums.bots-united.com/showth...=5909#post5909 I bet this 'fix' has something to do with it... :( |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
mass suicide ???
o_O WTF what if you try to put their FL_FAKECLIENT flag back ? TURTLEROCKER, REPORT IN, NOW ! |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
Well I tried out the new podbot_mm.dll which has the fakeclient bit set and the bots don't all die at round start, but then they hardly ever buy weapons, and other weird things will happen. I'd like to know what was changed because nothing works as it used to before this update.
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
i see on the hlcoders list there are other troubles too , like removing entities will crash the server and such.
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
Well, we are back to CS when it first came when speaking about the BIT flags. But the new CS dll also has some faster lookup code on Entities.
If i understand correct the CS DLL now handles the entities list instead of the engine. So instead of doing an engine call , the CS can directly access this list itself. Anyway, here a quote from the HLCoders mail list: Quote:
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
I found this:
my bot does not detect NEW ROUND anymore! I bet this also explains why POD does not buy new stuff. THis also explains my mass suicide when issuing any 'killall' command and such. When things do not get initialized on round start and such, we are seriously fucked. I don't know how you detect a new round, but i have posted mine in the programming forum. |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
This discussion also means that our MapHack/MapEdit plugins, and generally everything that uses the FL_KILLME flag won't work anymore.
*boiling one degree hotter* |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
Here is my mail to the HL Coders list:
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Re: Interesting update to CS today
WOW, you struck hard with your first email !!!
Mr President, IF EVER we manage to work more closely with Valve, are you SURE such entrances in the matter are the best thing to do ? ;) |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
Well, the 2nd qouted response is acctually pointing it out:
yes Valve does not guarantee 3rd party stuff, they have no contract to do so, but viewing valve forum and the release comment (.. bot should work now) i conclude 2 things (sry botman): - they talk before knowing (eh bots where broken by this, the bot coders fixes for that fakeclient stuff is known for ages, they did not know about what they did and when they did so (B.U. is/was running RB for 1 month) - a lot of COMMERCIAL customers are pissed (rental server ops shut down 1.6 server because no bots and mods, no customers on the server) and this is not good in comercial terms, when MS would break office integration of lotus notes, hell would freeze (inkl. the german MS support dept). I thing it's ok to rant on their lists, they use CS playerminutes and comunity intheir marketing so we can get pissed when they "lie" (say blantly wrong things) and the comunity runns into our forum and complains "eh _they_(Valve) fixed why did _you_(B.U, coders) broke it ?"... So we knocked on the door they slamed, using our foot, but we knocked and did not kick, and did have good reason (see the RB forum it's crowded with people pissed about that ".. work again", and it's stefans forum and spare time ....). i'd suggest making an Agora document/post (perhaps one like a wikki, each one shall edit and comment, to speed the process up) to find some common ground to present to valve as our point of view and intentions for our (your *g*) bot/mod coding. This shoudl make clear our side not what we want from them, so they can make up their mind if the want to support 3rd party stuff or not. memed [personal thought: i think one tactic could be to push them to decide: with us or against us; no middle way on our shoulders] |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
Be realistic, guys. We are, at the moment, in no position to "push them to decide" or request they do anything.
United Admins maybe. Not us. Because we're 1 month old, and we've got things to prove, for a start. My own bot is not out yet, neither is JoeBot XP, neither is Realbot - officially. What is the proportion of servers running one of our products (yes, I am talking on a "commercial" grade, but that's the point) on the net ? Do you know it ? Ridiculously small. So I'd suggest we keep our mouth shut... for now. I think it's the only wise thing to do. Although I agree a common "manifesto" from the third party coders (including the guys at United Admins in the process) that we would send to Valve would be a track to explore. But I am certain that if we've got nobody to back us up, we'll be just laughed at. It would be good to have the opinion of a professional, here - botman, for example, if you've got something to say or any comment to make, I'd be pleased to hear it :) |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
pls. watch out this is a personal thought, no aim i'm folowing. for now getting our side clear is what i want. then valve can get a picture of what BU stands for.
In commercial terms the valve forum and the leak detector tells me that they can't afford to laugh right now. hl2 and CS:CZ are to be come like Duke Nuke'm Forever and selling GFX cards with vouchers for hl2 is stopped afaik, they are afraid some ppl. sell the vouchers for more than the (now outdated) gfx cards are sold for.. I will start a survey tonight on how many server do use bots (oh and then i will know if they run windws or linux). i will be on irc at around 01:30 and start doing network analyis on how to scan CS servers fastest. cheers memed p.s. PMB, you are right, now we are nothing, but to be honest this forum looks very much like an intranet, a commercial one. so i'm in good faith that the ppl. in the council are upright enough to make a difference with the game. p.p.s. i respect UA, but the also leave out the endcustomer too often [there is no U.U. -> united users ... hmm] |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
The fundamental problem in this case is simple: steam removed the beta test cycle. Valve deserves a whole lot more bitching than they are getting imo. You cannot remove a beta cycle and expect people to be happy about it. Had there been a beta release of the Feb 9 update, the plugin community would of quickly tested their plugins out on it, wrote to Valve about the problem(s), and found solutions in time for the official release. That is what happned prior to CS 1.6. I know because I was using their engine update betas and I had to make changes and research solutions. It worked, and it worked well. After steam came along - poof, no more beta and the instant CS 1.6 was officially released, nothing worked! Damn that pissed me off, and it pissed off a lot of other people. Now my servers are almost bone dry, and that means Valve had just lost a lot of customers.
Valve has to reintroduce the beta cycle or they will continue to face angry users and a shrinking customer base. A beta cycle is simply good for business. Having said that, the lack of a beta is not the only reason we're seeing less people playing games like CS, but that's another topic altogether. |
Re: Interesting update to CS today
Rofl, yes i struck hard, and i hope that got them thinking. I don't care if 'we' are 1 month old. I care that 'we' kept CS alive for MUCH LONGER then it probably was in the days that Bots where really a must... Man, i remember i had over 100 mails A DAY for this CS mod and bot!
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