Habemus Papam!
 

Just saw it when I was at my dentist... That german fella, Joseph Ratzinger, has been elected Pope... I guess he will be known as Benedict XVI...

:D HABEMUS PAPAM! HABEMUS BENEDICTUS XVI!

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hm, conservative as hell

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Well, I can't say I liked it, but I'll guess we'll have to put up with him for a couple of decades or so...

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decades? he is 78... afaik

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Ignore religion and you should be save. LOL
I think we have no room for religion in this world, if people got on with their lives instead of all this moral rubbish that is handed out by these conservative popes.

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Im happy for them who are no longer leader less.

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That's the saddest thing about the whole affair IMHO: There seems such a strong -in fact, invincible- urge in so many people to have a strong leader who does the thinking for you and tells you what's good or bad. Not even a god, but a human being they can cling to. That's something I'm really afraid of. :|

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When he was standing on the balcony he stood a bit like Palpatine in the film Episode 2, LOL

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HABEMUS PAPAM! DUOS HABET ET BENE PENDENTES! :D

http://www.newint.org/issue244/curious.htm


Ratzinger, conservative? Bah, when you know that Wojtyla was conservative himself and that 98% of the voting cardinals were named under his papacy... I guess that's been a pretty well rounded affair :)

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I was in a truck yesterday when I heard it on teh radio, then I had to sit through a half-hour of really, really bad Catholic jokes.

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Yeah, just like Bush does. The main reason that he was re-elected was that north-americans thought that they couldn't change the president, now the country was so "fragile". Bush and his beligerant attitude seemed the most effective defense at the time.

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lol, such as ? :)

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Wrecks, I'm telling you man; Stop focusing on the problems... see the possibillities! :P

and I shall prepare my red revolution.

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I have only 4 words for this whole issue:
WHO GIVES A CRAP !!!

*grins*

IMHO, religion is and antique, outdated and no longer necessary tool to keep the masses afraid and to explain unexplainable things, that has no place in modern socitey, other than in a museum.

now, im awaiting the rants!

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the weird english press :

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,461726,00.jpg

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I agree Nova.
But remember only west europe has fallen from god.

Not saying we or them are bad or good.
We just don't understand it any more what it is. Or want to understand.
Europe has be come to political correct.
And in that perspective religion don't fit anymore.
Because what ever one might say about religion there is always somebody to take offence. (talkin various religions)
In europe there are so many religions/cults/communities that it does not make sence anymore to the common man.
There is not one total (big) religion that everybody would take forgranted.
So when there are more religions and one starts to think about it and compares them to each other to find the religion that suits you. It will all blend into each other.

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I like that papa ratzi word play :D

and btw, /me rants at Nova.

Don't be so harsh when you jugde religion...
While the established church seems outdated, many people still finds meaning through the ethical and moral aspects.

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Well - it's how a lot of people (especially from the west of Europe) are thinking now. But don't forget , guys, there are some people they need some religion, some hope and believe in eternal life etc. In the world with so big hate between the people , in he world without any authority - what do You think - why so many people were followed John Paul the Second? Every his visit - so many people near him (including older and younger people). They didn't care he was also conservative "as hell", but they loved him and they wanted to listen to him. Look how many people were followed him at his last way (funeral). It wasn't in the history before so many people (and so many VIP's) at funeral of any country leader. So - telling - "religion and popes should go to museum" - may hurt a lot of people.

Yes - not everybody need a faith to live right. But the faith is the grace of god - not everyone may experience and feel it. :)

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like i did not care when the previous pope died, neither do i care about this pope.

Why? because it is not somethign useful for this world. Instead this one will probbaly keep on telling the 3rd world and every other country with massive AIDS problems, NOT to use condoms for the sake of religion.

When that happens, i just keep on saying that this 'fantastic' religion keeps murdering people, though its a 'tough' word to say it that way.

Funny thing is, when a kid holds a knife, we don't say "stab yourself"...

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I won't repeat any; but to give you an idea of the caliber of wit in them, most involved either catholic priests and little boys, or references to the fact that "pope" sounds a little bit like "poop".

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Dont get me wrong, i am not talking about people that believe here. I cant understand that either, but i respect it. simply because it is not my place to judge about that.

And for me, the ethical and moral aspects of church are no longer upheld by church, and SHOULD be common sense ANYWAYS !

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Well....ummm....congrats i guess. Personally i believe in god but not in going to church. I feel that wasting a whole sunday being told what god did from another man's perspective other than his own is just a big waste. Don't get me wrong though, i respect someone who does goto church i mean of one too his own i guess. I just don't see any meaning in it.

I mean if god was actually walking the earth do you think he'd waste a whole sunday in church? Nope, he'd be playing CS:S with all the rest of you fine folks. :D

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who said "God is dead, Marx is dead, and I'm not feeling quite good myself" ?

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Well, You should read more about latest pope (John Paul the Second) then You will know how big influence for all world they may have. In shortest words - thanks him the communist has been destroyed without any blood (since he was calling the people to take things into their hands - it started this big process - and he told to Soviet Union leaders to don't use weapons against their own people etc.). Another thing - the letter from pope to president of USA and Nikita Chrushtchov (some leader of USSR) during Cuba's crisis. It's old story, so the young people may don't know it, but it's not yet the reason to say "they aren't useful".
Other thing - latest pope started the process to discuss between religions without any hate. If he wasn't useful - why so many people and so many VIPs have been at his funeral?

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my i remind you that religions are still number one of the cause of war? I don't care what this pope 'fixed' later on.

Communism and such, i can't judge about that. But the Cuba crisis was not solved by one pope. Like many other things its not one factor causing war, most of the time there are multiple events.

Call me a real atheist, but religion->causes->war. Power->causes->war

in the end:

Control->causes->war

humans are stupid, they tend to control everying, everwhere, anytime. Since that is not possible, or when there are struggles, humans tend to just destroy that whats in their way, instead of really solving their problems. *sigh*

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Well, I dunno, but the "God is dead" part I'm pretty sure it's Nietzsche...

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well... maybe because he's been the most mediatic pope ever ? :)

Think about it: this pope canonized more people during his papacy than all his predecessors reunited. That's a very good business investment: every third world village has its own particular saint now. Why do you think he travelled so much ?

I disagree to say that he's been responsible of the fall of the USSR-style communism. That's forgetting that the pope's catholic voice had almost no impact on Russia and 90% of the eastern provinces, which are foremost... orthodox.

The only place where he had some impact was Poland, his own homeland. Due the strong monarchist/catholic traditions that used to prevail in this country, that was not unexpected anyway ; as Stalin used to say, "applying communism to Poland is roughly as hard as putting an apron on a cow" :D

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You are right - in Poland he had the biggest influence - but don't forget - exactly since Poland changed the political system also other countries changed their political systems. Everything has been started here, in Poland. Tchech Republic, East Germeny (DDR) , Romania and after - "pieriestrojka" in USSR.
I guess You guys at the West of Europe should learn more about currently story of the East and Central Europe. I guesss even in Italy it's possible now to read books about John Paul the Second and his big influence at all world.
About a lot of saints and a lot of pilgrimages - it shows only how hard has been working. Until end of his life.

One question more - why exactly the people in Italy started call him "Il Grande Giovanno Paulo"? I don't think it's without any reason. Try to understand it. :)

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Does playing Il2 make a good history lesson, ah hell I don't care I like shooting down Me262s'. The pope has also caused alot of deaths in Africa. I mean honestly would you give up your right to have sex and using contraception to prevent a unwanted child because some stupid book, which written 500 odd years after the actual supposed son of god came to this world?

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I tried to believe it all.
But it's all to contradictionary. I don't believe a word from the bible.

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Well - I don't think death of a lot of people in Afrika has been caused by him. The people in Africa don't have the access to any contraception. Even if they would be ble to access it, they wouldn't listen any pope about something like this - "don't use it - it's wrong". I guess You are trying to attack my countryman without any reason. But not everybody have to love him. Everyone who contacted him during his pilgrimages and who has been listening to him, he experienced the big feel of something good. The people loved him not because of his conservative ideas (common to all older people - so what's abnormal here :) ), but because they experienced something good. The people were following him to have the possibility be near someone really good. He got respect also from other religions leaders (also not without any reason). Do You know why he didn't get the Peace Nobel's Prize? Only because to prevent the stupid discussions like - someone showed a catholic leader as "the best religion" representative. I mean someone could get it this way. So that situation could've start a new hating discussion (why exactly this religion etc...).

The Bible is not only the collection of something like this "don't do it - it's wrong". Since noone is able to make true all these conditions included there - God sent us His Son to teach us something different (different way to go to Heaven). Above of all of prohibitions and prescriptions it's the lesson how to love the people - love Your brother like Your-self. It was the most important part of Bible which JP2 has been trying to teach the people during his pontyficat.
Try to focus on this if that part from Bible about "don't do it - it's wrong" is too difficult for You. :)

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I am a believer in science over religion since science has proved to be the progressful in terms of expanding, it also shows we still have a lot to learn about in our own world never mind heaven and hell, I rather know about things in life rather than be told what to do to get to a mystical fantasy.

Apparently there is going to be some major event and war coming which has been prophetised. So in other words: how do you make a statement like that?
How can anyone say something so grim.

Besides that I rather read the Quran, the Tora and all the other religious material than just read the bible, it seems more interesting but I still don't need a book to tell me how to live, if I wanted to be nice to people I would when everyone else learns that greed is a terrible thing.

Of course I am still opened minded. :)

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the war has already begun.. almost every sunday i go to war with my clan.. ;)

an input.. sweden is black listed.. one of the first to sell condoms (spell check) openly....

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I agree, i mean the bible is man's interpretation of god (and all the other stuff related to him), god himself did not write it, i mean how are we suppose to know if any of that is even accurate? i mean just because they say it does does not make it so.

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...


this looks like an explosive topic. Now we need some moderator to calm things down...

Personally i don't really agree or dissagree since I'm all abandoned. I tend to agree with people stating their doubts about ethical rights and moral issues, but since none of them has appeared, I'm indifferent.

I hope this discussion will end without too deep dissagreements,

but anyway... keep on goint strong about ethical stuff... it's nice.

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Well there's bound to be disagreement, i'm cool though no problems here. :)

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As long as i stay civilised, i dont see any reason to stop it. This is an interesting discussion.

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He has been trying to follow Jesus Christ - "go to the people - teach them, tell them Gospel Truth and be near them".

You have to know in Poland - now - the poeple found a lot of documents and delations collected by people from Security Services (as slaves for the old system governement). Why? These people has been afraid a lot of him.They knew he could call the people to get things in their hands - and he did it so, but different way they though.
After one audience with pope some USSR leader (I don't remember his name now - I guess it was Iurij Andropov) came out from audience very red and purple on his face. And the people sticked around there have seen the afraid in his eyes. He understood - it's impossible to keep alive the communistic system in USSR forever and it's impossible to stop their own (Russian) people by weapons (it would mean a lot of blood andthe people finally could reach their target without care about their live (since to be slaves has been for them worse than die) . The changement was inevitable and pope convict him and made him ready for this. He was disagree, but he understood - can't stop the process.

Since pope it's like a leader for 1 billion people (it's about such number of catholic on Earth) - big leaders from all big countries has to have the respect for him anyway. Even if they disagree with his opinions. It means some influance at world.

But why exactly I'm trying to teach You guys, if You whole don't need this? Everyone wanting take more info about East Europe story and the infuance at it by pope JP2 - he can go to any bookshop and I guess even in West Europe it's possible now to buy few books about it.

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Actually here comes the question, where does religion take over for politics. If we all tend to follow religion, we end up in a war for sure.

What i find so odd, is that people cannot understand that this pope WAS powerfull in ancient HISTORY. The pope can't set yo ufree when you're in jail, the pope cant arrest you if you commit a crime. The pope has only influence through the religion, which is interpreted by each individual itself.

I'd say, if you're one of those 1 billion people following him each word he says, you're like sheep! Why do people critizise their own president/party but not the pope? If thats all true, and the entire world would listen to this pope, he would have true world-power, enough to stop any WW going on. This did never happened though.

It is caused by him, because he does not say "Use it for your safety". The religion itself says you should not 'stop' any way of getting children. I bet, when the pope says that people should use contraception, somehow all the needs will get there asap!

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It's not true - the religion "itself" says You may use "natural planning" with getting children. It means something like "natural contraception".

I never told I agree 100% with all our pope's ideas and with all he said/wrote. I was trying to show You how big influence (indirect) he had on the world.
Africa is another topic (maybe someone want to open it) - there are 2 problems - AIDS and poor. I wrote 3 phrases about it here, but I've just deleted them to stop inreasing the temperature here. We can talk about it at priva rather. Or here - if You will stop shout at me... :)