Work on Wesite?
 

this thread is mainly for T Wrecks but anyone can look at it ;)

should i get some of my guys to throw together a template and if so do you have any specifications that you want it to be by?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Umm... yes... I mean, before whipping up a site, we'd better think about how it's supposed to look like. Of course, I'm open to any kind of suggestions, and I guess MarD will also have one or two nice ideas.

Anyway, here's what I thought of... I put it all into a super-crappy little GIF to show the general structure I had in mind. I added loads of explanations and text... just look at it and tell me your opinion. I'm sure this concept can be improved DRAMATICALLY - it's just a first brainstorm.

Oh, some technical notes: IF possible, I'd like (you :D) to keep the site technically simple, i.e. no fancy Flash stuff etc, and maybe not even JavaScript Pop-Up windows for the WP details (see attached file), but plain html links that open in a new window (or, if you have a decent browser, in a new tab).

NOTE: File is not a ZIP - it's a PNG. I just renamed it because attached PNG's can't exceed 19.5 kB. Just remove the ".zip" at the end.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

yeah that sounds good but like what about visually like what colors pictures, etc... and i will have to work on the upload part never really tried that.... and the site won't be flash at all i don't even know it that well

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

The default layout you made there TWrecks is nice, but yeah, maybe make it a little more flashy on colors n' stuff, just nothing too major that others won't understand. Just tell your buds with photoshop we want a easy, but pleasing on the eyes look to the site.

We'll definately gonna have to setup a filter system, and maybe a search one too. and have things like filters for all bots, or selected bots.

For our news page, when putting waypoint files on, we should also set a Revision number for each one. Version numbers won't work nice since people have all kindof weird numberings (some are 0 decimals, while others are 5.. you get the idea) So for example Biohazard's DE_Dust waypoints R.1 and our revisions would go by the waypoints they uploaded to us, so if bio uploaded 1 main release, and 3 updates, I'd be R.4... you guys get the idea.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Well, the colours were just to show the different parts of the site. I could have chosen pink and purple as well. :D It was just to make separations visible and is not intended to show or even hint at the definite colour scheme.

However, I think the "skeleton" must be defined before we decide which "clothes" to provide it with... we will want to know what buttons we need before getting some 1337 Photoshop gurus to make some that are never used.

@ MarD's post: First of all, thx for the input! =) I'm gonna post some thoughts on the filter system tomorrow, but I gotta get up in 5 hours, so no endless text this time... ;)

That idea with site-specified revision numbers is great! We should really do that.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

i want to get more into detail here tell me exactly what is going on the site

like are there going to be like waypoints for Podbot mm, Yapb, RealBot, etc and should the layout be based on spacific colors and graphics or just something simple.........


Things I Will Have To Learn:
How To Solve a Rubik's Cube:P
Learn To Make A Searcher (i know about half of it)
Learn To Make an Upload Section(also sortta know)


Questions:
Are we buying our own webspace for this
How much space will we get
What sort of layout do you want? one like www.rocks-hideout.com (not color i mean like how everything is seperated up)

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

can u use google search within the website...??

i've seen some sites use those types of search engines

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

welll i guess but i think they have to sponsor you to have that and besides that searchs the WHOLE site not waypoints.... i can do it i have just never made a searcher

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

searching is quite simple if you're going to use a SQL database to store the waypoint's information...

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

We're just gonna get some webspace off PMB, speaking of which yeah, how much free webspace will we get PMB?

I like that rocks site, it's gotta nice layout, and I like the colors.

Once we get more into detail yeah, I think we should shape the frames. I'm sure whatever your photoshop buddies cook up will turn out great. ;)

Speaking of colors, dudes, should we use the same colors of BU, or are we just gonna pick our own?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Hey, nothing wrong with excel dude, as I say "as long as it works, that's alright." :)

And yeah, that color scheme sounds nice TWrecks, I think it'll work out nice. ;)

As for the site, are we gonna incorporate BU's login's for commenting on waypoints/waypoint-packs? Cause I doupt everyone will like the idea of registering twice just to go on BU, and then again for Waypoints @ BU... I almost hesitated on signing up at RCbot's forums cause I was feeling lazy. :P

But yeah, for RCbot, nearly done, I played with those waypoints with some buds, n' the bots seemed to run pretty good on his comp (but he was using v1.3, so the bot's weren't as efficient as the latest beta build of v1.38 ). A few small fixes were needed, but I got most of them implemented. I'm almost done, just need to run through aboot 10-15 more maps and then the bot's SvenCoop HL1 Campaign waypointpack should be ready for release. So I was thinking, if we don't get the site up after a few days of me completing the pack, I'll put it in the filebase for now, n' then later we can just transfer it to our site.. how does that sound? :)

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

soooo should i have someone make a template and if sooo what do you want the layout to look like or do you just want em to make on up

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

IMHO, the best approach would be:

1. Agree on the structure, the features and the functionality of the site.
2. See if somebody can get all that coded and if it's possible at all. If not, go back to 1) and keep the limitations in mind. If it IS possible...
3. Get a skeleton of the site working - no gfx, no effects, just plain, ugly default font text links.
4. Tinker around with that demo site a bit. See if it does what we want it to do. Make a small WP database and see if we can have search results filtered as we plan to do. Change a file's revision number and see if the changed number appears when we reload the page, etc.
5. "Skin" the whole thing and give it a nice layout.

If we can agree on the general scheme I posted, we ought to think about the necessary filters now... "sort by" and "display only" - but according to which criteria? How many parameters do we want to implement anyway?
File size, upload date, file time stamp, revision #, WP author, # of downloads, rating, new, updated, xx map type only ? All of them or just some?
And should the resulting list be customisable in a sense that the user can specify which columns to display? Let's say only time stamp, author and rating?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

lets start simple.... i will get somepeople to throw together a layout first

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

check this template out, it isn't for the site but i just want you to see some of this work!!! http://www.crimsonsunsetrock.com/test1.jpg


and as for the layout copy that is so no one rips it off

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Ooo, nice, it looks 3Dish, but very simple, nice. :D

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

That looks nice indeed... I just hope we don't lose too much space due to that vertical division.

I'm gonna post more tomorrow, gotta go to sleep now.

-EDIT-

Ok, as announced, here's some terribly ugly little sketch based on bio's template. It shows the basic concept, and I wrote some text into the pic to explain things a little. Please ignore the "stone age kiddie style" layout skillz, ok? :o
For a visual impression of what the main part (thge waypoint list) is meant to look like, better refer to Counter-Server Maps... (server.counter-strike.net/maps/). I had thought about a list like that, only that we don't need preview thumbnails. Thus, each line wouldn't have to be as high as on CSM. Likewise, the huge number for ratings could be replaced by little stars (or bullets, or whatever).

Does that look like the most ridiculous concept you've ever seen or is it barely tolerable? ;)

Oh, another note: Of course we could add reverse ptions for the "sort by..." arguments, i.e. if there's an option "sort by name (a-z)", we could also add an option "sort by name (z-a)"...

[Attached file is NOT a zip! It's a png - please remove the second extension after d/l'ing... just added that to get around the size limitation for image files.]

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

srry didn;t know you had posted :( .... uumm yeah i didn't actaully intend this to be for the website we are doing but if you wanna use it for that thats fine with me... i can also get the guy to extend the graphics so we don't have to make it 800 x 600 it can be like 1200 x 600 centerd or w/e... i will talk to squall about how he did the website voting stuff....


[EDIT]
Actaully i think he manually adds the reviews that way he can look them over first
[/EDIT]

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Yeah, sorry... I saw too late that the template was just intended as a kind of quality sample and not as a draft for the WP page... I should read more thoroughly before I post something. ;)

Anyway, it's not that different from what I had in mind: A broad horizontal bar at the top, a side bar at the left, and the main frame in the lower right area of the screen. Only the bottom bar is superfluous IMHO. No problem, though - what I wrote into that screenie applies for any design, so no damage has happened.

What exactly do you mean by "he adds the reviews manually"? You are referring to the "official" reviews, right? The ones by the CSM reviewers, I suppose. I think the readers' comments are added automatically... and boy, are those stupid in 80% of all cases! o_O
A separation between "official" waypoint comments & ratings and player ratings looks indeed like a good thing to do...

In our waypoint list, it could look like this:
-------------------------------------------------------
WPU rating: ***
User rating: ****
-------------------------------------------------------

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Yeah, TWrecks, I was thinking on the lines of maybe setting it up like CSNation's "Skin Of The Day" archives. Like, have a main list, and then if you click on "full review" or something like that and I'd show you a main site editor's main review, and then the CSnationalist reviews. Another one I thought of was the skins/plugins section at winamp.com. It's prety cool, I'd have the main editors review, and a random comment from any user underneeth with their review. So there's 2 to think aboot eh?

Also, for file uploading, I'm guessing we'll be using that SCP/SFTP that BU uses right?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

That's what I had in mind. Just the rating stars in the list, and a click on the file brings up details (editor's comment, users' comments) plus download link. Not to forget, a "Rate / Comment" link, which will bring you to a rating interface where you can say how many stars you give and (optionally) leave a comment as well.

Not bad, either, but this would require a different site structure.

You mean the one none of us knows a f*ck about 'cuz we're too damn stupid to even upload to the filebase? Yeah, I guess so. Why?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Well, I doupt you n' Bio are stupid, it's probably just me cause I have no idea how to upload to the filebase, which's why the latest EPB release is just an attachment in my post instead of an actual file in the filebase. I'mma forum moddie n00b... w00t! :D :D :D

So err, a little offtopic, can you teach me how to upload to the filebase TWrecks for Bio? please? this may come in handy once I start getting newer versions of E[POD]bot and if the forum council will letme upload here n' stuff. :P

I'll try downloading that free proggie PMB posted to see what uploading with it is like. I'm only used to FTP. I use like, FlashFXP I thnk it's called... Hopefully that SCP/SFTP isin't much different... here's the link to that post with that free proggie: (at least I think it's free...) http://forums.bots-united.com/showthread.php?t=2795

[EDIT]
Oh, forgot to write why, if it ain't obvious from above, cause I dunno how that SCP/SFTP proggie works, but I bet it shouldn't be too different from my current FTP proggie... I'm gonna start writing this program, cause proggie's making me think of perrogies... and now I'm like... starving... :P

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

you guys are thinking way to far ahead, not that it is bad it is great but we haven't even started the website, if anything we need to throw together a list of things we: will need, want, or want to try....

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Ok, let's start with the database, because we will need one. Some kind of table the content of which can be read and put into the right place on an HTML page, and in the format we specify. For example, if there is a column named "rating", and this column contains the value "4" for the map as_oilrig, then on the web page in the line for as_oilrig, there should be 4 little stars or whatever we use under "rating".
I figure we could read comments or site reviews for any waypoint from such a table as well...
Another question is: Can we write stuff into the table / database automatically? Let's say a user clicks on "comment/rate", writes "this waypoint file sucks, bots keep getting stuck" and rates "1" out of 5 stars... how do we get this into our table automatically? Can we program the page in a way that the values and the text entered by our user will automatically be added into the table / database, and that upon the next reload, these freshly entered values will be displayed already?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

yeah, i can think of about 50 ways to do this, but you way sounds the best, altho this is a little over my head, i know some people who can help

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

You will need PHP and SQL for that. We can open a table for you in the BU server's SQL database. Ask Onno for the database stuff, he knows that better than me.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

yeah i knew you needed PHP and SQL or ACESS, it is kinda like a forum i just don't really know how to write it

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Well, anyway it sounds like it's possible, and while it might not be easy, I suppose it's not rocket science, either... or is it? :|

I reckon that for a first step, it can't hurt to think...
a) how the table is to be composed (how many columns)
b) how many fields are to be "interactive", i.e. get changed automatically once a user downloads a file (download count +1), rates (new average rating calculated automatically) or reviews it (review text added somewhere).

Another question... how is this user rating stuff done, for example? Let's take CSM as an example once more... when there's a new map, the staff rates it, let's say 4, and adds a review. Now 3 more people rate, let's say 2,2 and 4. The new average rating would thus drop to 3. But are there like 20 empty slots for ratings in a kind of table, or are these user ratings kept somewhere else to calculate the up-to-date average?
Pretty much the same goes for the user reviews... is there a certain amount of database entries reserved, or how does it work?

Excuse me, I'm really a n00b at such things...

Another thing we might want to consider is the possibility to delete user ratings / reviews. Look at CSM: Sometimes a map gets bad scores just because some brain-damaged kiddie stops by, writes "Hello I'm Dave" into the review field and rates the map 0-0-0-0-0...>:(
If I were member of the CSM crew, I'd delete such nonsense.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

the thing is i don't think CSM updates automaticaly, like if i submit a rating and comment or w/e it doesn't show up, it is reviewed and then posted, thats how it works on CSM, i am pretty sure at least

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Really?!?! 8o OMG, how can they let so many stupid reviews get through?

Anyway, that doesn't really change much. The question is, where and how do they store the stuff? Do they have the reviews and ratings in separate [text?] files they read out by means of a script? Or do they have them right in their database?

Otherwise, the only actual difference would be that not the necessary database entries / source files are not edited by a user via some kind of web interface, but by the editors, via manual and direct access to the database.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

I agree, anyone should be allowed to post ratings/comments but like, we should be able to moderate them like the forums. Which makes me think, are we gonna use Bots-United login system to be able to post ratings/comments, or are we gonna make a separate one to just lower the confusion?

The ideas for this site are really starting to bloom, I can almost see the site in full action right now in my head... sweet. :)

I think this site will generate more traffic than our waypoint section (and probably more annoying traffic like TWrecks states for CSM), so yes well need to have control of any innapropriate postings.

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

well how do you wanna do it, do you want it to be a form that has the rating inputs then when they click submit it sends the email to me or w/e and then i post it, eeerr something else

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

The automatic system...
advantage: Runs for itself once it's up
disadvantage: Users might post shit, and God knows when we'll find it out.

However, it might be possible to delete stupid reviews and the ratings connected with them. Let's say a user named "n00b0tr0n!c" posted "I rule" in the review text section and rated the WP 0. If this is stored somewhere, an admin could have the privilege to edit the review so that it reads ' "n00b0tr0n!c" has posted a stupid and useless comment', and the rating gets deleted so that it's no longer calculated.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The mail submission system...
advantage: Admins would have full control over submitted material and the ability do delete / ignore idiotic postings and / or edit posts to remove stupid greetings or offensive stuff.
disadvantage: There's no telling if we'll have some cute & cuddly 5 mails in 3 days, or if traffic will grow over our heads.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm really not sure what to decide for... :|

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

the automatic one with "report bad post" just like in vB and a lot of BBs..

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

well honestly i don't think we would get TONS of ratings not that we won't, but i will need to get some help if we do it the auto way cause that calls for PHP or script which i am still learning

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

suggestion:

- do use the 5 stars system
- only let bots-united forum members vote (use same login/username)

this way you can also track bad behaviour via the databsae, makes it easier for us to moderate in a whole (ie, when a user messes up the database of the maps, we can kick him, simply applying the FBRC to this person. We might have to extend the FBRC for this though).

I think the way like Windows (eek!) Media Player handles music is a way to handle waypoint files too.

Filename / map
Bot compatibility
Rating (0/5 stars)
Size (kb)

I would not do per mail, use a forum style thingy. So people can comment on each file if they want to. And, to prevent stupid comments, you can perhaps build in an auto-filter. (ie people saying F*CK or "STUPID map" and such will be auto-filtered and not posted. You can also require the user to hae mroe then x words , etc)

I'd say, try to make it as effecient as possible, moderating such a site will probably take more time then you precalculate at first..

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Stephan's right guys, let's do it auto-posting, but put on some filters, then it's easier for us (and our e-mail inboxes), and most of the hard work will be filtered out automatically, nice thinkin' man, I likes. :)

No one seems to oppose the idea of opening another mini-forum for waypoint commenting, so that's cool. We should do this and then the majority of the commenting/rating system will be done, and all you'd need to do is figure out how to tie both together. Like PMB suggested, talk to onos, cause he's probably got the most knolege on how you could achieve this bio.

This thread's starting to generate some interest towards the forum council, so I think they're all for this idea, so we've got the support of them too. :D

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

well this is all great but again i would have no idea how to get the user names from BU to work, but i am probly interpreting this wrong also?

Re: Work on Wesite?
 

Heyyo,

Well, the BU forums is powered by the vbulletin forum system, so what you really need to learn is how the vbulletin system works.