Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Work In progress (WIP) #6
BUILD 2065
Released at 05/01/2004

Windows only: realbot_mm.dll
For Linux users, read at the realbot site what is going on.


For changes/fixes/adds:
http://forums.bots-united.com/showthread.php?t=71

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

nice to see that you found some time to release a new wip so soon=) .

I gived the new wip a quick try, but the T won't plant the bomb (played about 25 rounds on 3 maps) and if i planted myself the ct run just by it except for ones, a ct ran up to it and hold still about 4 meters before the bomb and just looked at it without defusing ito_O .


edit: made a litle mistake :'(, fals comment:o

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Stefan,

Do you need help compiling the new metamod for linux? I can give it another try with the new metamod source with the Valve patches.

Let me know how I can help,
-Dethpod

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Hi @ll,

I have compiled metamod yesterday. But i think that is not the problem ...
My metamod you can get here:
http://wwwmath.upb.de/~dreyerja/php/...e=mm_linux.zip
It's working for me (c).

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

WTF REALBOT BUILDS 2053. 2060, 2065 the realbot unloads after map change. In build 2049 realbot was working great after map change. Whats Wrong? PLZ HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

when is the hear thingy for the bots comming out???

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Its unloading during map change again.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

PS: Have previous versions on the site for us to downgrade.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Yes this version still has those nasty bomb problems...

CTs seem to get stuck on the dropped bomb, seems as though they're trying harder to pick it up than the Ts lol...

Botstuck still needs work... they still love those little corners... Also would be nice to see the bots fall and lose more than 10 health, they don't take that path anymore (they can't quite get on those boxes by the bridge in dust)...

Or perhaps some way for us to edit node connections would be easier?

Jumping?

Bots still buy weapons on 0 priority...

Could you please mention the commands for debugging?
It used to be rb_messages...

Can't wait to see this new hearing code in action...
And the new chat system...

Just take your time and do what you can when you can IF you feel like it...

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

stefan : can the random camping thingy be dropped, and then build camping in to the node system?, so the bots don't sit down in open places but in places were humans like to sit(read dark and creepy corners with a lot of dust:P ).

Like a human sitting still for about 10 sec. than that spot would be taking in the node system as a possible camping spot.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

I have played CS with your bot (first time in more then a year I use your bot)
and I mst say I am impressed with this release.

I do have some thought though.

To improve playability
1) Make the bot react when hit. e.g. make it its hghes priority to neutrilize the threat
2) Make it more aware of important things gameplay wise eg once bomb has been planted make ct's want to go both bomb sites and try to defuse once they think it is safe
3) also make T try to use a path to reach a bomb site (now (at least in my exp and waypoint file) they try to get to the others spawn(well i have trained them ok i think))
4) on some maps more then others even after retraining the bots tend to want to use the same route and be in a large group, while this is not to nice gameplay nice it is ok behaviour by me. But the thing is bots in a group are not aware (or so it seams ) of covering each others back.
eventhough it makes good fun the first few times to punish this kind of behaviour.



To improve useability
I like to use the realbot debug nodes draw commandbut it doesn't always seem to draw all nodes maybe its a bug im not sure


Please note that I understand this is a preview release and by no means perfect.
And this is not to shoot the bot down by any means.

I like it and I want to give feedback.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

hmm, fixed using debug nodes init and noding the maps again!
is this always supposed to be done?

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

I realy like the bots but I thing u realy need to get the bots to use the AWP bether bacaus they are runing around and trying to shoot me att the same time. why don't they Stop and then shoot I u shoot the AWP ehit running it is No chanse in hell to hit.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

good point, this is weapon specific stuff though. But it will be nice to have bots understanding how to use a Sniper rifle properly.

@tim, not that i know off. It worked with my 'old files' as well! I have nodes files over weeks old (pretty well learned).

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Hello Stefan!

I've downloaded and tested every WIP-version of your RealBot until now - but since WIP#4 I didn't really find a significant improvement in the behaviour of the bots.

First: I always test with random bots and end the tests with godlike bots.
So I get a feeling of the improvement of the bot-skills. And I always test them on DE_DUST and CS_ITALY to check, if they still take the same routes...

And I don't always want to moan around, but give positive criticisms.;) So I will always try to give a advantage suggestion to each problem.



They still have problems with the bomb (setting it, camping, getting it if lost, give backup for the bomb carrier) and the hostages (don't free them, don't lead them to the free zone, but running around somwhere).

And still they have the problem, that they keep hanging somewhere, jittering around, mostly on corners or thin objectives. Or they try to get a way back, where I had jumped down.

Suggestion: I already mentioned, that bots should run a distance randomly, when sticking at a place for a certain time without coming forward.


They mostly take the same route and mostly the come in groups - I only need to hear e.g. at de_dust, from which door they come from, throw a Flashbang and fire in the hole - kill'em all.
The bots don't learn from that, if they get shot there and come always this way. Only the godlike bots seem a little bit to check this problem.

Suggestion: Bots should first take ways, they don't know good and then should take ways, that are save.


Also the bots don't learn from getting flashbanged or killed by a H-E somewhere or get shot in the back or get annihilated (in CS_ITALY there's a little way near the market - there you can wait, hear the CT-bots run to the hostage house, get behind them - and bangbangbang...)

Suggestion: the nodes should have infos for T's and CT's (I think you did so, but the nodes should have much more information) - if a bot get's shot there, the node should have info, from where the bot got shot. And if a bot comes there after that, the bot should scan, if there could be a threat. And some sort of statistic info (I think, the whole bot-thing works this way;) ) "In 2 of 10 tries there camped an enemy" -> scan and then run by. Or "In 8 of 10 tries there camped an enemy" -> Attention!


If I try to learn bots camp sites, they don't use them - they even don't camp anywhere. The buy a sniper rifle and run through the map like they had bought an MP. And nevertheless they get their Headshots - very unrealistic.

Suggestion: I thought, the bots learn sites, where I like to camp around. So it's strange, that I like to camp in DE_DUST in front of the doors - but the bots still like to storm in. Bots should get infos, where others (players or bots) succeeded with camping...


Bots still don't react on my commands 8D ("Hold position" or "Give me Backup" doesn't make any sense) or interact through commands. They even don't give "Sector clear" or "Set position"... and very often, the bomb carrier leads the way ???:(, although he should be the last but one to come, and one behind to protect the back.

I don't know, how this works with the bots, so I can't make suggestions here... :(


And they freeze when got flashbanged. Easy target! 9_9

Suggestion: They should react after what they hear and flee backwards or sthg.


And, last but no least, bots don't buy and throw grenades!

Suggestion: Is this integrated in the bots? Don't know...???:(

If I play with friends, we always discuss a route and split up in groups and buy appropriate weapons to solve our tasks. I don't know, if the bots work "from node to node". They should plan a mean route and in case of loss they should take alternative routs. I think, WE "work" this way - I know, I have no problems moaning around... would it be a very hard problem to add some strategy to the bots? I cannot appreciate the complexity.

I simply try to give you infos to make it better, so I hope, that you don't get it wrong ;)

Positive:
Bots now seem to react, if they get shot in the back, but not always.

One thing: Sometimes it seems to me, that the RB AI 1.0 worked a little bit better. Don't know why... ???:(

And I think, you shouldn't release one WIP after one so fast - it would be better, if you would take yourself more time to test the bot extensivly, with the infos gathered here.

OK, I hope I could help in some way!

With best wishes,

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

hello i got some good news. My realbot works now in map changes. I think itz becuz i installed meanmod

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Same here. I'll see if I can't post a brief installation guide on my node site in the next couple days :)

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

So will this fix the bomb planting problem... perhaps the old experience isn't compatible with the new code so it doesn't work correctly... I will try this as well...

After testing I noticed no difference... they still don't do their objectives as often as they should...

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Using the default metamod (non-custom) fixes the crash at mapchange. IT COULD be the custom metamod that causes some of the problems. I'm looking foward to when the linux plugins are available again.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

i think it is the 'fixed metamod dll' that causes these trouble. I will try to find the cause , but since i cannot reproduce the error i will have a helluva time to figure that out.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

is the server that crashes a dedicated- or a listenserver?
cause my dedicated server has no map change problems.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

are there still hlds commands in this release, meanmod can't add bots anymore, metamod says the plugin is loaded but no bots still?

edit: nevermind, found answer in mean bot.admin manager forum. thx.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

The bots seem to have trouble with the wire fences in de_cpl_fire. They just stop and start jumping next to them. If you are interested the map is at ftp://thecpl.com .

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

I havent played much recently (doing lots of coding, err... trying to at least hehe) but ive been keeping up and i noticed its slowly refining but little things and big things still seem to be snagging points. I cant seem to place my finger on them exactly because some are barely noticeable. Like a bot being shot from the back and not noticing untill it doesnt matter, or of bots trying to snipe an opponent with a knife. Or even smaller things like bots naking unnessisarily long, winding paths everywhere, or saying random things that have nothing to do with the current mission. Or responding with Affirmative and not actually doing it. Small but in mass quantaties. Even still, we [try] to understand that this is hard and a painstakingly long process. Well, at least i do because i just converted from an ancient Borland compiler to Visual Studio 6 and lost my books. Anyways, what im trying to say is it looks really good and is comming along.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Hi Stefan, really good work so far!
I have a few sugestions/comments on your bots.

First the nodes, is it possible to make the nodes "directional"? So that the bots know from wich direction they are supposed to follow the nodes? It would stop the bots from trying to reach places where players jump down from large obstacles, crates for example. And in the same way a node could be placed as "camp" if a player didn't move for like 10 seconds and the sniperscope zoomed in.

Second, is it possible for the bots to learn how to break "hard to breake obstacles"? Like in dust4ever the bots get stuck on the large (breakable) doors forever! They never leave cause they know? it is possible to go through? but they don't seem to understand that they have to shoot the doors.... alot.

Third, i installed HPBbot with Pierre-Marie Baty's HPB_bot_mm.dll and it WORKED together with Realbot!!! For 1 round then there was an error in realbot_mm.dll :-( But i noticed that he has a different system for the bots moving, i ran it with no waypoints but still his bots moved around bumping into walls and changing directions bumbed into the next wall and so on. They didn't get stuck. Maybe you could "loan" his code for some part of the nodesystem? ;-) There where lots of cool code there, like the chat for example.

Keep up the good work! :D

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

I don't know if someone alredy have commented this,
but my bots buyes weapons every round, if they have a AK at the start of the round they buy a new one.. and somtimes they don't have enoff money fore a AK, then they buy a crapy weapon insted. can't u make so if they have a good weapon att the start of the round they don't buy a new one.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Hey Stefan! I just wanted to drop a line and say hi. It looks like a lot has been done since I left a short while ago 8)

Anyway, I'd be happy to help in any way I can. Looking at these forums, You probably don't need another moderator, but if you want an extra beta tester... :D

btw, I like the design you picked for the new site. It was my fav of the bunch. Can you post news to it through the forums? If not I can lend a hand at making this possible.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

hey jedi where have u been

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

hey jedi!!.. i noticed MW.net.. i might know some ppl who would like to help.. i atleast one who would like to be a poster. tell me what you need..

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

I have a weird problem here, the bots get more stuck against walls and corners over the time, when i just node the map the walk fine but as more humans play on it they are getting more confused about getting their way.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Hey Jedi, long time no see indeed! :) Welcome at Bots United! :D

Tim, the bots can't get confused by a number of players. The players simply add connections and thats about it, they can't make bots go different ways suddendly, only when they are adding new connections which where unknown for bots.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

well, yes i know that, but can there be to much connections or can the connections sometimes be connected the wrong way?

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

i saw on your server (just played it) that some connections are okay, but the bots just did not take them okay. Since the bots insist to take the connection they don't try to restart the whole thing, so i am going to code something for that.

also, i noticed that when humans jump for fun they add connections, this should not be possible (you are floating, so yo ucannot really go to that connection yet).

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

how come the bots dont listion to commands ne more? such as "follow me"

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

bcuz theres not code for it?

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Well, after playing the latest WIP on my server, I have these notes:

1. Bots get stuck on corners and edges. About 75% of the time they can unstick themselves, but sometimes they stay stuck forever.

2. The lack of hearing code is quite noticeable.

3. The learning is cool, it's fun to walk up to a bot the first time and see it start to move around. I added several new maps that wouldn't waypoint before, like as_highrise. Yehaaaaa!

4. Bomb camping is noticeable, and that's a good thing.

5. Planting and defusing priority is a little too low. When there's 1 minute left, and no enemies sighted recently, the T bot with the bomb should NOT be camping, but heading for the nearest bomb site. When the bomb is planted, CT bots should immediately head for the nearest bomb site, and split up to get somebody to both sites ASAP--not all go to the same one unless one bot is close enough to hear the bomb ticking, then he should radio everyone he hears the bomb. Plant and defuse priority should increase as time left ticks away.

6. The VIP bot is a clueless noob again, will walk right past the escape zone and go screw off back in the spawn area. It's kinda annoying. Escaping should also increase in priority as time remaining decreases. If there's 10 seconds left, the VIP should be running for the nearest escape zone like a bat outta hell even if the entire enemy team is shooting at him. If there's time left, hide and call for backup.

All in all, an improvement, maybe smooth out the navigation some too. But "no waypointing" rocks.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

How do i make my port 27015? like pretend my ip is 563.349.32. Then my ip to my server is 563.349.32:33235
the last numbers a gay.
I also tried -port 27015 on my command line. Can Someone Help????

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Very busy with School and stuff :(

http://www.mediaworlds.net/forums

There are a LOT of bugs in those forums, because I'm working on hard-coding something special for it. Something that hasn't been done before. Lets just say Iris will do a bit more than just reply to posts...

Even though it is not finished, you are more than welcome to visit, hang out, and even register. Just know that it hasn't launched yet, and expect some bugs. (the poll system is screwed up, for example...)

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

Your ip can't be that!!
The ip form is xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
The xxx must be replace by numbers from 0 to 255.

Re: Work In progress (WIP) #6
 

miss leading optic? 00255.344233.44773 and so on..
i just like playing stupid..