For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Well, I just finished checking my WP for de_museum, and here it is! Have fun and let me know if you find bugs etc.
---
Note: This is a WP designed for Pierre-Marie's PodBot plugin, tested on CS 1.5.
I'm going to post the whole bunch of waypoints I made, but Austin wanted to have this one for a start, so here it is- straight out of the factory.

The next WP in this thread will be cs_assault_upc (as requested by Austin).

All WPs posted here will still be included in the WP pack, so if you don't want to d/l WP by WP, you can wait for the pack and be sure to get 'em all.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Here we go, WP for cs_assault_upc as requested by Austin and promised by me...

This time I had a good WP made by TAZ for an old PB version (V6) to use as a basis - since the WP seems to have been made at a time when the jump connection wasn't invented yet, I added a few nice jumps and did some minor readjustments and improvements.
You'll like the bots jumping over the gate in that iron fence facing the larger exit of the warehouse and the nice jump path that uses the lamp over the small door on the other side of the hall as one station (btw, bots can now even camp on this lamp ;) ).

Have fun - for other details see above.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Great work T Wrecks! Keep it up! :)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

That's exactly what I'm spending this weekend with - although it's really nice outside, at least here.

Btw, I liked your old avatar pic better than this... uh... "doomy" one. ;)Maybe I'll start a poll in the Off-Topic forums for people to vote on which avatar pic you are to use in future :P

Nah, I think not really. Oh, and I'm trailing off topic. back to this thread: As I said, I won't post many WPs until the whole lot is done. If anybody cares to see some WIP screenshots, I might post some, though. Just let me know...

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Tx BKA, I will try them out and let you know what I think of these two.

Progress so far
 

Hello everyone!

Here's a list of the maps I finished checking and debugging the waypoints for:

as_alps
as_coast
as_iraq
as_palace (these roofs are made for walking, and that's what bots will do...)
as_rising_sun (4 connections in this level took me several hours to fix... >:( )

cs_175bikini (found a way to avoid the ladder bug, fixed/added some jumps)
cs_52sevilla
cs_52villabacho (Before, the WP was good. Now it's better... ;) )
cs_afghan
cs_aldi2k
cs_attack
cs_arabstreets (some very neat additions, lots of cleanup)
cs_assault_upc (already posted)
cs_attack
cs_bankrupture
cs_beersel-f
cs_beirut (an 800+ nodes monster, the WP to rule them all...)

de_52andalusia (rooftops are cool)
de_52leon (totally new, a whole new experience...)
de_52spania (some fixes)
de_karachi01 (already posted)
de_museum (already posted)

as_rising_sun, cs_arabstreets and cs_beirut kept me busy for a looong time each, because there were some extremely tricky connections that kept resisting and just wouldn't work. I had to change some of them 8 times (save, quit, restart, check again... and again... and again... etc.) before they finally worked. cs_beirut with its ledges, rooftops, walls and jumps was mabye the most complex and difficult waypointing task I ever faced, but it ought to be worth the work (I hope). The next maps shouldn't be that difficult, and I hope I'll be able to make some faster progress, but you never know...

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Really high quality waypoints.
How about a waypoint pack of this quality for the default maps ?

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Hmmm... generally I'm never against making waypoints, but do you think it's necessary for the CS default maps? AFAIK, the waypoints that were included in the original PB 2.5 release (most of them done by TAZ and/or Count Floyd himself) were very, very good. I'd be hard-pressed to find any possible improvements. All I can remember right now is one single bug concerning a jump waypoint in cs_militia. It occurs when bots are trying to jump onto the roof from that pile of crates at the little side door, where the grate to the garage is. But I'll have a closer look at them tomorrow. Sometimes waypoints work quite well but leave out a lot of possibilities.
More tomorrow, I'm too tired right now.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks Hmmm... generally I'm never against making waypoints, but do you think it's necessary for the CS default maps? AFAIK, the waypoints that were included in the original PB 2.5 release (most of them done by TAZ and/or Count Floyd himself) were very, very good.

BKA, I didn't know that. In fact I don't even know what waypoints I am using for all of my maps. (waypoint confusion, waypoint disorganized H_LL!).

What I think would be very helpful to me and most everyone else is to create a "Very high quality waypoint pack for the default maps." It doesn't matter if we use the original wps that shipped with POD 2.5 or not.

YOU, obviously are a great waypointer and know which ones are great and not so great. We need to tap into your knowledge and GET ORGANIZED! Could you round up the best of the best for the standard maps, fix what ever problems and then send a zip over. I will put up a page on my web site or BU can host them.

Also we need to get together and start a thread on what we need to do to create the "next generation" version of the 2.5 waypoint editor. I will code it but I want to do some design first and getting the most people involved is helpful as far as new ideas go.
(Hey just saw you started the thread already, thanks!)

P.S.
PM,
As if you didn’t already have enough, here is one.
When I paste DOS text into this board, text ending with 0x0D 0x0A
it double spaces. If I first convert the text to unix style ending in just 0x0A
(I think) it space fine. Any chance we can get a dos to unix conversion going on all reply text? :)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

...

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Um... could it be that your WP editor doesn't even display the waypointer's name any more? The original PB WP editor did that, so at round start you could read "waypoints created by TAZ", for example. That would help a bit. And it would give some credit to good waypointers like TAZ, SoUlFaThEr, bot_guy etc., whereas when you realize that a WP sucked, you know who did that bad work and can avoid WPs made by this author the next time.
(Actually this comment belongs to the new WP editor thread, but I see we got things mixed already... shit happens.)

9_9 Oh well... how could I deny that wish? I guess it will be 99,9% TAZ's and Count Floyd's work plus 0,1% T Wrecks fix... but if you want it, why not? And one thing is for sure: Having sufficient "training", it takes five minutes of walking through a map with pwp on to see if the WP is good or bad.

...but first I'll finish the custom maps!! ;)

---------
*EDIT*

Now here are the latest ones I finished tweaking & checking since the last post:

cs_belair
cs_bikini
cs_bikinigirl (fixed the problem with that large metal door as far as possible)
cs_bikiniresort
cs_boxoffice (wanted to tweak existing WPs, ended up in making all new file)
cs_chinatown (a mixture of X-tender's old WP and mods/addistions by me)
cs_costabrava
cs_courthouse (1 tiny bug left, but no way around that one afaik, sorry)
cs_docks_v1
cs_duke2k
cs_ephyra2 (added access to the building through the window)
cs_espana
cs_estate2k_b2
cs_expo
cs_garten_chillout
cs_ghosthouse
cs_greenhouse
cs_haste_final

WP for de_oilrig completed!
 

As I suspected last week, I couldn't stand the PITA of checking & debugging waypoints all the time and permitted myself the little change of making an entirely new set, this time for de_oilrig (as requested by Austin).

Once I'm posting this, I might as well add the latest maps I checked after I posted the last list:

cs_hispanic
cs_hive_apc (fixed some ladder issues and tried to make bots shoot that padlock do open a door, but it didn't work reliably enough. Took me 2 days)
cs_inca
cs_industrywest
cs_iraq
cs_kloster
cs_libre

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

only out of curiousity :

are you checking and correcting my waypoints too?

the other thing is :

when you do correct some stuff do you save them under your name or the original authors name?

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

just curious again (starting to believe ill grow wiskers soon) :

didnt i make all those official map waypoints for you once Mark?
i think most of them are still running on the server.......so far that i can see anyway.....maybe with the new A path bots.....i could redo the T start of de_dust since i hear they navigate cool now........

i spent a great deal of time doing that......if they suck id be glad to talk about whats wrong with em......cuz id like to keep my name on them:P

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Yes, SoUlFaThEr, one thing a waypointer MUST do now is to put waypoints EVERYWHERE in the map. Including where you believe the bots won't ever go, or even where you don't want them to go. Because the pathfinder works radically different now since Count Floyd's A* template has been activated. And also, there must be waypoints everywhere because during combat, the bots don't rely that much on the waypoints and if they run backwards and land in the middle of nowhere (for them, meaning where there are no waypoints) they will definitely get stuck. For example with your excellent waypoints for cs_havana, the house on the right of the CT spawn is divided in several rooms and there's even sub-rooms in each of these rooms ; but I frequently see bots seek cover in one of those little sub-rooms during a firefight, and once they get there they're stuck because you didn't put waypoints in these areas. So the bots bump into the walls trying desperately to find a way out, and eventually camp until the round ends, and nobody would ever have the idea to go and hunt the bot in such a confined area.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Whew...curious indeed! =)

1. I'm currently checking all the WPs I made or fixed / corrected / tweaked / improved myself. Other waypointers' files may come afterwards. (but read 4!)

2. If it's true what Pierre-Marie said (and there's no reason not to believe him, it's just that I don't know e.g. your cs_havana waypoint), then it may be necessary to have a look at least at the older waypoints you made - new bot versions may require different WP placement and open new possibilities.

3. I'm only making / checking WPs for custom maps. I don't waypoint maps in order to break records or read my name, I only waypoint them if I don't have decent waypoints. And I'm too lazy to try several WP files from the internet, there's too much junk out there.

4. I never remove the original waypointer's name! If I made the WP from scratch, you'll read my name only (duh!). If I only added / fixed 2-3 minor things, I'll keep the original waypointer's name. And if I add / fix something worth mentioning (areas without waypoints, broken ladder connections, unused possibilities, jumps not working etc.) that leads to improved gameplay, I add my name behind the existing one.
I don't want to take credit for other people's work!

*note* rewrote the whole post, for those who have read it last night and now wonder what happened... I installed steam yesterday, played online for some hours and was pretty wasted afterwards, resulting in way too much unnecessary text...

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

oooooooooooweeeeeeeeeeeee !!!!!!!! OH dang PM !!!!!!
theres over 300 WP files with my name on them. If what you say is true.....(100% is)...then none of them are going to be any good with the
A Path bots.

hehe there went my rep :) LOL:|

There goes my efficiency concept for faster bot navigation using less waypoints with hand-done extended connections and every single waypoint placed by hand.

If the A path bot plays on any of my waypoints they will all get stuck i'm sure.....poooo what to do........

I guess the Day-of-the-Autowaypointer has arrived.....

I am literally afraid to test this bot...

Thanks for the info PM

T-Wrecks !
You are absolutely ok in my book man no worries duder 8D
your #3 is the reason why I started waypointing at all.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

8o You placed waypoints beyond the auto-connection limit in open areas and then MANUALLY CONNECTED ALL OF THEM ??!?!? OMFG, how much work must that have been? That makes my 800+ nodes cs_beirut pwf or the 750 node cs_snowflake pwf I just finished look like 5 minutes' work... And in more than 300 maps... o_O *me losing consciousness*

No, I don't think so. I could have used that all the time, with the number of waypoints being no problem at all (I've seen WPs with 1000 nodes, and they worked fine). But it just sucks. If the result is meant to be something decent, there's still no way around placing everything manually. Heck, I haven't set a single WP automatically in my whole fraggin' life, and I bet that won't change anytime soon... 8D

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

I agree that I am crazy but I wanted to make efficient waypoints, but I just noticed that a waypoint having less than 400 waypoints never lagged........and in waypoints with only 300 or less, the bots got to the target areas much faster.....so i made good binds and just typed in numbers......for the pwp stuff. In the end I actually would refuse to do HUGE maps for this reason.

ONE NOTE TO AUSTIN/PM ON THIS:
I once mentioned extending the autoconnection limit...lets make that happen if its possible =)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Your wills are orders, Soulfather.
How many units do you want ? :)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Yes, and I usally don't forgot things, even months later...
I changed this from 256 units to 400 and it is in the code I sent PM.
I forgot to mention this in the doc file.

Actually I was going to put in a new command to allow the setting of this distance. (I didn't see any reason not to allow large distances between connections, if you knew what you were doing.)

Check out
bool WaypointNodeReachable(Vector v_src, Vector v_dest, edict_t *pEntity)
{
.
.
.
// is the destination close enough?
if (distance < 400) //ABS was 256

I would vote for a new comamnd awpDistance
(autowaypoint distance)
where you can set ths distance.

This was so simple to change it took 5 minutes and I never had seen the code before. We need more feedback from the WP communitity telling us what are the biggest headaches and what are the most wanted features!

Some can be just a few minutes for us developers to implement.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr just curious again (starting to believe ill grow wiskers soon) : didnt i make all those official map waypoints for you once Mark? i think most of them are still running on the server.......so far that i can see anyway.....maybe with the new A path bots.....i could redo the T start of de_dust since i hear they navigate cool now........ i spent a great deal of time doing that......if they suck id be glad to talk about whats wrong with em......cuz id like to keep my name on them:P

The problem is me. I never got organized with my waypoints so I don't even know what I am using, who did them or where the ones you sent me may be!

Nice! But I do know ONE thing. I am using your de_aztec waypoints and THEY ARE AWSOME. My admins voted to take this map out of the rotation because it was so boring with the original wps. After changing over to your waypoints it is now in the top 3 played maps. We do a 4 man team RUSH to the bomb site against 28 bots who get there about the same time, awesome fun!!!!

You have been there I think you know what I am talking about.)



Perhaps now that you are back on the server you can help us get organized? You would be perfect since you actually play on the server and can make fine tuned tweaks to the wps after seeing exactly how things work out. Help!

(PM going to have time to work on the installer TONIGHT.)
After this I am going to setup a second server with the new bots so we can see how the newbots/oldbots compare and have a place to test things and also run the new bots under the debugger on a DS with several humans connected..

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Ok - feedback you want, feedback you get! ;)

1. I second this bit here:
This would really be perfect; you could adapt the autoconnection settings to your situation.
Only enlarging the radius of automatic connections will increase the PITA with jump connections and ladders tremendously, since in both cases automatic connections -many of them wrong or undesired ones- are drawn. A bigger radius would result in more of those connections, which moreover would be harder to trace & eliminate, because you'd have to run around more WPs to check.
As I said, a command would be greatly appreciated. However, we shouldn't get autowaypointing and autoconnections mixed up here. There's a difference between setting WPs automatically each x units and drawing connections automatically if the waypoints are x units or less from each other. How about this:
autocon[nect] setradius xxx

2. In some cases, automatic connections are highly undesired. For example, when I'm placing a single row of WPs along a ledge, all I want is each waypoint connected with the one that came in front of it and the one that's to come next. However, the WP editor will automatically draw connections e.g. down to the street under the ledge, resulting in bots falling down.
And in some cases, even one-way connections from the ground up to the ledge will appear, resulting in bots running into the wall and trying to get up forever. To make matters worse, in the process of waypointing that ledge, those wrong connections are invisible because they lead TO the nodes you're just placing.
Therefore, it would be great to have a command that would trigger automatic connection of WPs in general. In concordance with the above mentioned suggestion, it might look like this:
autocon[nect] on/off

Btw: I've almost finished the first part of my high-definition waypoint pack (50-60 hq waypoints). Unfortunately my PC keeps locking up when I try to upload larger files here(large - oh well, even with more than 150 kB I'm running into trouble), so I was wondering if I could send the pack to you by mail. Maybe you could even host it on your server and PM me with the link so that I can post a thread with the link and some descriptions on BU? TIA!

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

It's done. The new command is "autopath setradius N" (since I already recently added the "autopath on/off" commands). It will be in the next release of the bot, as soon as a major bug is found and fixed.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

Great! I'm already thinking about an updated waypointing documentation, since Count Floyd's original "WaypointsHowToDo.html" is now hopelessly outdated...
First of all, the new commands (and the new short spellings like "pwp" for "pathwaypoint") must be added. Then it might be ok to disable some - think of the "wayzone calcall" that was already obsolete when PB 2.5 was released! And the "waypoint delflags" command...- no, wait. That one can stay. You don't need it if you use the menu, but for people who want to bind it directly it's quite ok, I guess.
Maybe it would be the best idea to leave the html as it is, except for the list of commands. The rest of the file is still a great introduction to waypointing. Further information could be added in a separate file, some sort of "guide to advanced waypointing" for those who are interested. I bet that, for example, SoUlFaTheR and me would be able to show some of our tricks & methods... ;)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

@T Wrecks:
You could upload your waypoints to my website if you like: http://www.cs4us.de
You have to register to upload but not for downloads...

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

My brain is whirling8o

autopath setradius (long Integer !!)!!!!!!! now the ledge problem no longer exists !!!!!!
HELL YEAH !!!!!!!!

ok next thing :

did we ever figure out how to get my other phat idea working :

that we could stand on a waypoint......point the x-hairs directly at a specific waypoint...and be able to add,delete(1 or 2 way) pwp connections?

the other thing i remembered in this area was that we would have different colored connections added........a new color for those connections TO the waypoint you are standing on......EXample: yer up on the ledge T-Wrecks was talking about.....and you CAN see that 1-way connection coming UP to the ledge waypoint your standing on. sure we can fly around noclip as usual ......but with the point and delete as mentioned above in combination with the new colored TO connection.......we wont need to noclip anymore :) OMG !!

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

I believe I see what you mean. Doable. Both your ideas. I'll think about it as soon as I must get my hands inside the bot again :)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

i am imagining these 3 colored connections :

white = one-way
yellow = two-way
Brown = to-connection (one-way connection only please)

all these connections come "into" or "leave" the waypoint at the same height....directly in the middle.......

if we have brown and yellow, or brown and white coming to and from the same waypoints.....will the optic be difficult to understand?

or can we have the to-connections come "into" the waypoint we are standing on.......up top only? possible? or dumb thought?

if its a 2-way connection anyway......the brown to-connection should not show up.......because it should only appear when if its a one-way connection to the waypoint we are standing on :)

hope that wasnt me just thinking-aloud-babble-in-the-forum crap8)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

sorry to double post but i need to separate these thoughts.

another hot idea......i think more for Austin than for PMB.

we need 2 jump waypoints.

one normal jump waypoint as it is.

and a special jump waypoint where a bot MUST(or is forced to) take out his knife to take the jump.

this will support the de_dust problems with jumping on various crates with ease.....there are so many maps with DUCK-JUMPS that can only be done with a knife out.......this would entirely solve this bot-nav problem :))))))

/me pats himself on the back(only if i can be done)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

I finally sorted through my waypoints and I am using wps from SoUlFaThEr for all the standard maps and they do rock and I have pxp files to match from running on the server with 28 bots for almost a year now.

Try them out and let me know what you think.

http://http://austinbots.com/waypoints/sfwp.zip

If everyone agrees I can bundle these into the POD2.6MM installer next time.

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

wait on that.........i decided that i will fix all those waypoint for this new bot using the A* pathfinder......

if yer not talking about that bot.....then do it :)

IM ON A ROLL :

we need this too :

the bots take hostages ONLY to the "last placed" rescue waypoint.
this must change......they need to take it to the closest one from where they are.....or at least change it up sometimes. in cs_havana......they go to the farthest one away until i make sure that the actual closest one gets used my making IT the last rescue waypoint placed in the map.

sad but true :)

Re: For Austin... and all others, of course!
 

@Austin: your links is not working, it should be http://austinbots.com/waypoints/sfwp.zip