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- Releases, Installers, Docs & Coding (http://forums.bots-united.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48)

- - POD-bot back into shape. (http://forums.bots-united.com/showthread.php?t=833)

sPlOrYgOn

02-04-2004 05:21

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

did anyone else see the crouch waypoint grow when soulfather went next to it in his demo? (I feel like i'm being picky 9_9 )

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 07:27

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

1 Attachment(s)

i already mentioned that one time.......that all crouched type waypoints(camp or not) have a full waypoint with them.......as if the full one is representing the flag.......

but theres no flag on a normal waypoint

i got a new DEMO here about how bots actually have a problem with LADDERs

such that they will willingly go back through a set of 3 waypoints that are ONE-WAY in........bot has problems on many maps with the bottom ladder waypoint.....he goes back up first before actualy going down fully......

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 07:41

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Yes, there were parts of the old code for camping waypoints remaining. I had to get rid of them and convert them to take ANGLES instead of vectors. The new camp waypoints work well now, and they finally work the way they are meant to (which has NEVER been the case so far with any version of POD-Bot), meaning that the bots now use the camp directions correctly.

The problem is that the POD-Bot waypointers have to redo ALL their camp points to make them compatible now, because all their camp directions will be messed up.

It's not necessary when using another flavor of POD-bot, because in none of them the camp directions are working correctly. But if you expect them to work right with this one, you have to redo (well, "do finally" would be more correct) all the camp waypoints.

I've also rewritten the FL_NOHOSTAGE waypoint handling in a cleaner way. I don't know if it will help to fix anycrap because honestly I have spectated these bots for 2 HOURS full in cs_assault, and I have NEVER seen one use a no-hostage waypoint incorrectly, I mean on purpose. The only case that can happen is when the bot is believing no hostage is following it.

I notice the bots still throw grenades very stupidly. I don't know what to do about this. It must be the algorithm Count Floyd made them use which must be intrinsically wrong. Perhaps some day I'll try to bang my head on this one.

I'm uploading the new bot.
http://racc.bots-united.com/releases/podbot.zip

*edit* I've also added Austin's new menu for the waypoint editor (autopath maxdistance)...
btw, the bot is finished uploading - go for it.

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 07:45

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

omg........all the official waypoints again.......its all worth it in my eyes !!

does the camp thing now point exactly where we point when placing the waypoint?

Austin

02-04-2004 07:56

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

i got a new DEMO here about how bots actually have a problem with LADDERs

I have never gotten demos to play. What so do i have to do?

Do I start a LAN game choose the same map? the demoe was recorded in?
and then type
playdemo demoname.dem
After a pick a team?
????
They NEVER work for me never.

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 07:58

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

yes, that's what I mean
...well, NORMALLY eh, as usuals I might very well have screwed something else up :D

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 07:58

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

go to Mr. Google

tell him :

geekplay

dl that its really simple......show the program your HL.exe.....choose the demo(needs to be placed in the main cstrike folder) and push play.......

kedat

02-04-2004 13:05

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

1 Attachment(s)

After about 30min...

Whistler

02-04-2004 13:12

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre-Marie Baty

HERE's the fix fix fix!

Code:

 void UTIL_ClampAngle (float *fAngle)

 {

    // Whistler, TEST your bugfixes before submitting them!!! :D

    if (*fAngle >= 180)

           *fAngle -= 360 * ((int) (*fAngle / 360) + 1); // and not 0.5

    if (*fAngle < -180)

           *fAngle += 360 * ((int) (-*fAngle / 360) + 1); // and not 0.5

Huh ? I'm using the 0.5 thing all the time in YaPB and it works all the time. Anyway the 0.5 is INSIDE the ().

Whistler

02-04-2004 14:34

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

...it's this:

Code:

    if (angle >= 180)

           angle -= 360 * (int)(angle / 360 + 0.5); // 0.5 is INSIDE the (int)(...)

    if (angle < -180)

           angle += 360 * (int)(-angle / 360 + 0.5); // 0.5 is INSIDE the (int)(...)

NOT THIS !

Code:

    if (angle >= 180)

           angle -= 360 * ((int)(angle / 360) + 0.5); // 0.5 is OUTSIDE the (int)(...) - WRONG

    if (angle < -180)

           angle += 360 * ((int)(-angle / 360) + 0.5); // 0.5 is OUTSIDE the (int)(...) - WRONG

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 16:35

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistler

...it's this:
if (angle >= 180)
angle -= 360 * (int)(angle / 360 + 0.5); // 0.5 is INSIDE the (int)(...)

If you do this then your code will behave wrong for large values of angle, do you know that ? 9_9 :)

The function will exit and the angle will still be overflown.

Whistler

02-04-2004 17:04

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Anyway I have tested it with this little program and it's all ok:

Code:

  #include <stdio.h>

  

  float AngleNormalize(float angle)

  {

     if (angle >= 180)

            angle -= 360 * (int)(angle / 360 + 0.5);

     if (angle < -180)

            angle += 360 * (int)(-angle / 360 + 0.5);

     return angle;

  }

  

  

  main()

  {

     float a;

     float b;

     for (a = -2532.3; a < 3602.3; a += 0.1235)

     {

            b = AngleNormalize(a);

            if (b >= 180 || b < -180)

            {

           printf("your code is wrong !\n");

           return;

            }

     }

     printf("your code is right !\n");

  }

Also the asserts are never failed in YaPB. You can try playing YaPB for a few round and I'm pretty sure you'll find no angles are mess up. :)

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 17:35

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

i got a thing here.....with a new waypoint done within these last 2 updates.....that does not show up on waypoints from before........

i cant even show you a demo cuz you dont have the map...........(PMB) (its cs_1337_assault)

the ct gets the hostages and then appears a message:
waypoint problem: no path found

and the bot cannot get out of this room......with his hostages........when he accidentaly does.....hes walking straight through a no hostage flag......

thinking it was a no hostage flag placement mistake of mine......i went through the routes he should take and did a wp delete flag on every single waypoint from the goal to the rescue waypoint.......and the error still occurs. 2 errors in one shot.......

i went into cs_assault..to see if it happens here and it runs perfectly......no clue man......and the PODERROR.txt...(now much smaller!) shows no error of any kind.

sPlOrYgOn

02-04-2004 17:36

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

both ways work just fine...
[edit]
of course this is about the angles..
[/edit]
[edit2]

Code:

#include <stdio.h>



float AngleNormalize(float angle)

{

        if (angle >= 180)

                angle -= 360 * (int)(angle / 360 + 0.5);

        if (angle < -180)

                angle += 360 * (int)(-angle / 360 + 0.5);

        return angle;

}



float angleNormalize(float angle)

{

        if (angle >= 180)

                angle -= 360 * ((int)(angle / 360) + 1);

        if (angle < -180)

                angle += 360 * ((int)(-angle / 360) + 1);

        return angle;

}



int main()

{

        float a = 180.0, b, c;

        int notsame = 0;

        for (a = -9999.9; a < 9999.9; a += 0.001)

        {

                b = AngleNormalize(a);

                c = angleNormalize(a);

                if (b != c)

                        notsame++;

        }

        if(notsame <= 0)

                printf("Some are not the same...\n");

        else

                printf("they all the same WOOT!\n");

        return(0);

}

[/edit2]

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 17:47

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

@Whistler:

Nope ! it's NOT okay, because even if your resulting angles are in bounds, they are NOT ANYMORE modulo 360 versions of the original one !

it's as if you were doing

Code:

if ((angle < -180) || (angle >= 180))

   angle = RANDOM_FLOAT (-180, 180);

... with a bit of exxageration, I concede :)

Nevertheless your code is wrong, and I can prove it.
Instead of running your test program, rather run this one:

Code:

void main (void)

{

   float random_angle;

   float result_angle;

   int count = 0;

 

   while (1)

   {

          random_angle = RANDOM_FLOAT (-100000000, 100000000);

 

          result_angle = AngleNormalize (random_angle);

          if ((result_angle < -180) || (result_angle >= 180))

          {

                  printf ("ERROR! in=%f out=%f count=%d\n", random_angle, result_angle, count);

                  getchar ();

          }

 

          result_angle = AngleNormalize360 (random_angle);

          if ((result_angle < 0) || (result_angle >= 360))

          {

                  printf ("ERROR! in=%f out=%f count=%d\n", random_angle, result_angle, count);

                  getchar ();

          }

 

          count++;

   }

}

You will see that your code fails for large values of angle.

And NOT only this, but if you add a

Code:

         printf ("in=%f out=%f\n", random_angle, result_angle);

         getchar ();

for each angle that is tested, and compare the input and the output, you'll notice that the output is NOT a modulo 360 representative of the input. You have an error that goes increasing with larger values.

Believe me, I've tested it all thoroughly, thanks to you pointing me that bug, and I've found the right code. It goes like this:

Code:

float WrapAngle (float angle)

{

   // this function adds or substracts 360 enough times needed to the angle_to_wrap angle in

   // order to set it into the range -180/+180 and returns the resulting angle. Letting the

   // engine have a hand on angles that are outside these bounds may cause the game to freeze

   // by screwing up the engine math code.

 

   // check for wraparound of angle

   if (angle >= 180)

          angle -= 360 * abs (((int) angle + 180) / 360);

   if (angle < -180)

          angle += 360 * abs (((int) angle - 180) / 360);

 

   // needs a 2nd pass to check for floating part truncation (rounded 180)

   if (angle == 180.0)

          angle = -180;

 

   return (angle);

}

 

float WrapAngle360 (float angle)

{

   // this function adds or substracts 360 enough times needed to the angle_to_wrap angle in

   // order to set it into the range +0/+360 and returns the resulting angle Letting the

   // engine have a hand on angles that are outside these bounds may cause the game to freeze

   // by screwing up the engine math code.

 

   // check for wraparound of angle

   if (angle >= 360)

          angle -= 360 * abs ((int) angle / 360);

   if (angle < 0)

          angle += 360 * abs (((int) angle - 360) / 360);

 

   // needs a 2nd pass to check for floating part truncation (rounded 180)

   if (angle == 360.0)

          angle = 0;

 

   return (angle);

}

And if you think about it it's perfectly logical. The function asks itself, how many times can I add OR substract 360 to the current angle to have it in the bounds ? Then, taking the absolute of this value, it either adds (if value was initially inferior) OR substract (if value was initially superior) - hence the abs(), as many times 360 as needed and the resulting angle is GUARANTEED to be in bounds, and a modulo of 360.

The only check left to do is the floating point truncation (precision error) that would make the final angle land accurately on a rounded 180 (which would be just above the limit).

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 17:54

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

@SoUlFaThEr, your problem IS a waypoint problem. It means that the bot can find a way to get TO the hostages, but it can't find a way BACK, because all the routes it could take are blocked with a FL_NOHOSTAGE flag. Try waypointing your map again, you'll see it works. I understand now why you said the bot was ignoring the FL_NOHOSTAGE flag before on this map, that was because the bot couldn't find ANY other way back. Double-check your waypoints again, and beware of one-way connections :)

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 17:59

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

EDIT

MY BAD DUDE......i ran through it without seing one waypoint with a no connect........im sorry!!!!!!!!

ok i suck :) thats what happens when you dont sleep :)

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 18:10

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

tsk tsk tsk, check them again. I *know* how the code works, and I tell you, your waypoints will STILL be saved even if all of them wear a FL_NOHOSTAGE flag. The checking routine doesn't check for this.

Isn't there simply a FL_NOHOSTAGE right at the exit of the room ?

Test them again. Trust me. Waypoint problem. :)

...

if I'm wrong I pay you a pack of beer and I ship it by air mail.

*edit* then no beer for Tim :D
hehehehehehehe

SoUlFaThEr

02-04-2004 18:16

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

damn and i was getting thirsty......i owe you some beer.....what you want?
Guiness?

Pierre-Marie Baty

02-04-2004 18:25

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

lol dude, any blonde will do :D

/me pops off a garette and waits for the beer... :P

CoCoNUT

02-04-2004 21:35

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Last week I did waypoints for cs_downed_cz with podbot 2.5/metamod. I optimized them with the old Podbot (CS 1.5). The waypoints worked perfectly, absolutely no error-messages. I played with these waypoints for several hours myself. Now I tried your latest podbot-release- and I get "no-path-found"-messages over and over, and I don´t know why. The bots don´t seem to use any camping-waypoints. Please be careful- maybe the old camping-code is bad, but we have not enough high-end-waypointers to do waypoints for the thousands of maps out there.

Maybe you can get rid of all of these podbot-limitations by creating a new bot with a completely new waypointing-system and editor. Your podbot_mm from 03.26. works VERY fine.

Please always keep in mind the waypoint-compatibility with old pod-waypoints.

Anyway, great work so far. Keep it UP!
Thx for all the hard work you put into this project.

>BKA< T Wrecks

02-04-2004 22:22

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Oooooh no... OMG, nooo... tell me it ain't true... all those camp WPs again?!? *Me takes rope and goes looking for a sturdy tree* :'(

CoCoNUT has a good point there: There aren't many waypointers around there who a) know and use your PB plugin and b) don't suck :D . It will take a lot of time to redo all camp WPs in all the maps I waypointed so far.
Pierre, I think this might be a point where we (mostly you, actually) ought to wait a minute and think what's better:
1) Dropping "legacy" PODBot compatibility for enhanced features (but only corrected camp WPs may not convince ppl that it's worth the change).
2) Keeping the bot compatible with PB waypoints, at the same time sacrificing some neat features.

Of course the ideal solution would be one that fixes the camp WP problem without giving up compatibility, but if you say it's impossible I trust you.

One little consolation is that if the plugin no longer is fully PODBot-compatible, all WPs made for it will be something exclusive, and new high-quality WPs won't have to face so much (90% shitty) competition. However, in this case I suggest that the bot be distributed under a new name to reduce the danger of a waypoint chaos - old PB ppl downloading CoCoNUT's or my plugin waypoints and players of your bot running into trouble with old WPs which they thought would work as well... If anyone searches the web for WPs, he will need a chance to easily distinguish between those that he can use and those he can't use.

Gee, I hoped my 100th post would be a happier one... :|

sPlOrYgOn

03-04-2004 03:10

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

or maybe all the podbot based bots can adopt the camp waypoint fix then all the new podbots will all be compatible.

Whistler

03-04-2004 04:09

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Thanks, but I've found another l33t code in the Quake1 engine, although I don't quite understand it but it works...

Code:

 float        anglemod(float a)

 {

 #if 0

         if (a >= 0)

                 a -= 360*(int)(a/360);

         else

                 a += 360*( 1 + (int)(-a/360) );

 #endif

         a = (360.0/65536) * ((int)(a*(65536/360.0)) & 65535);

         return a;

 }

SoUlFaThEr

03-04-2004 04:49

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

leave that camp fix/adjustment in there!!!!!!!!!!! just go in and erase all those camp spots.....this bot chooses its own camps spots anyway even if there isnt a camp waypoint there.......and they choose wisely actually. a simple fix :)

even if we have to fix our best maps(yer never going to play all of them anyway)........i am now presently fixing camps on these officials that i just spent 6 days doing........but the way these camp spots work now......i DONT CARE!!!!!!!!!! they are going to be EVIL cuz im making them aim in headshot range already.(you can aim them up and down, its placed where you point!!).......i got 15 maps done already.....both as_ and all cs_ are finished......

dont take it out PMB.........these are separated already with a name guys......

its "podbot2.6mm" so sites will have 1 podbot section and 1 podbot2.6mm section on thier sites to differentiate......
and whoever else is paying attention to this bot are simply among the Elite.....people will follow what's GREAT, not whats "o.k."......

its only a question of time :) relax

besides.....with the adjustments so far to the editor......im waypointing a map in 2/3's less time than before and they are even more exact than before also.....(that is if im not tired hehe ).....this simply means it will take on much faster...and i wont be the only one noticing this. me and Austin worked on these editormenus for a good while.......and the things are awesome speed increasing options!

@CoCoNuT:
a small bit of advice on your waypointing.
after seeing what you did with the new CS1.6 maps.....you need to turn off that autowaypoint function FOREVER. learn to place by hand.....and you will have good waypoints........there was nothing but bad connections everywhere......no radii adjusted...no bad connections erased......you will see how easy it is to do GOOD waypoints without autowaypoint on.......and using the new menu option to adjust the pathwaypoint set distance before placing waypoints.....which will stop the bad connections!!

so easy now!

its much easier than you think :) try it out.....T-Wrecks was listening to me and look at his work now!!!

huntercc

03-04-2004 05:34

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

A minor annoyance I just noticed... when bots chat, the corresponding lines in the log files appear to have some sort of newline character in them, at the end of the chat message, so it looks something like this:

Code:

L 04/02/2004 - 19:13:21: "Johnny<167><0><CT>" say "I hate these stupid comments, Joe!

" (dead)

This is with a version dated 3/22. Anybody else notice this? Everytime I notice a bug I check here and there's already a fix for it... maybe this is one I find first? ;)

I haven't tested the latest fixes yet, I'm eagerly waiting for some improved waypoints first, but overall I'm amazed at the performance of this bot :D Keep up the excellent work :D

edit:
AFAI can tell, this is true for every bot-chat message...

SoUlFaThEr

03-04-2004 05:48

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

i may need 2 more days for those standard map waypoints for you......with camp spot fixes...

huntercc

03-04-2004 06:06

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

sweet!!

>BKA< T Wrecks

03-04-2004 11:19

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Well... first I'm gonna finish my custom map WP pack for ALL PODBots, i.e. with the old camp WPs. I'm almost done anyway.
Then I reckon I'll start again for the new MM PODBot. *siiiigh* :(
So they really aim at where you pointed the WP, right? Even at the corresponding height. Tell me more about that... do you specify a single point now, or a certain angle like before? How does that height thingy work when you want a bot to monitor a slope when camping? What's a headshot against a bot standing halfway up the slope then would be a bullet into the ground if the enemy is on top of the slope, and in the best case a "hat-shot" (if those bots were wearing sombreros) if the enemy is standing at the bottom.

@SoUlFaThEr: Now that you'r into the waypointing stuff again, how do you think about joining forces in order to provide an "officially approved custom map WP pack" packed with 2.6 MM PODBot? I suppose there's a nice number of custom maps you already waypointed, and in the case of those maps it will be faster if you fix your existing WPs than me making them all new. I would then add my WPs for custom maps (with new camp flags, of course), and the result would already be a nice bunch of WPs. Then we could see which kick-ass maps are left and decide who does which map... How does that sound? Just occurred to me, it might save ppl some trouble and ensure they get good stuff, so that the qualities of PMB's bot really show. Let me know how you think about it... ;)

Austin

03-04-2004 11:36

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

@SoUlFaThEr: Now that you'r into the waypointing stuff again, how do you think about joining forces in order to provide an "officially approved custom map WP pack" packed with 2.6 MM PODBot?

I think this is an awesome idea. I would do everything I can to support your efforts including putting in any more changes you may need into the wp editor. Plus I have super pro map installers I can make for each map. Two clicks and they are correctly installed on anyone's system. Check one out here:
Austinbots.com/maps
Go ahead and run one. I would like some feedback to make them even better, but I think they already have everything they need. The great thing is I wrote a program that scans all maps in the maps folder and then makes sure all the associated custom files needed by the map are available then it GENERATES these exe map installers automatically. WOW! This means I can generate the installers for ALL maps in my maps folder in a minute or two. Having these installers is FINALLY helping to get people who play on my server, to install custom maps.
I would really like to see this happen and I think in fact it already is happening.
A review of the lets say the top 100 best custom maps for bots, with totally debugged perfected waypoints to match, all with no-brainer 2 click custom exe installers and all hacked to supports 28 bots teams!
WHAT DO YOU SAY!!!!
GoGoGOGOGO!

>BKA< T Wrecks

03-04-2004 15:00

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Hmmm... sounds phat! Your installers make map installation really a no-brainer, and they spare users the trouble of finding out how the heck a ZIP archive is structured and into which folder to unzip it. This way, nobody would end up unpacking cs_drivemecrazy.zip and get the following result:
...\counter-strike\cstrike\cs_drivemecrazy\cstrike\maps\cs_dri vemecrazy.bsp
Other examples of How to Make Installing Maps a PITA are zips that contain mistyped folder names, resulting in sounds\ambience, sound\ambience, sounds\ambiance and so forth.

However, those modded maps may not be everyone's glass of beer. For your server, it makes sense. But at least those maps that are well playable with bots should be included as a regular version as well - of course bundled with hq waypoints as well. Take a map like cs_militia2k1 (militia clone, obviously) - some ppl who don't play against so many bots will prefer having those rotating doors in the map simply because they look way more authentic than sliding doors and add atmosphere - however, they WILL appreciate a "walk in the park" installer and a decent WP set right with the map; no need to fiddle around or download any file - be it a forgotten .wad, .spr or a waypoint.
So I'd suggest offering, for example, cs_militia2k1 (IF we include it) in two versions, one fully modded for hardcore bot fans and one original.
Hardcore bot fans could download a really exclusive map, whereas others could d/l the standard map with an easy installer and good waypoints and still play this map on other people's servers without getting error messages.

SoUlFaThEr

03-04-2004 16:36

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

WAIT A MINUTE...slow down...im with you 2 on all that but: think a moment....

Mark.......hacked maps are your servers SPECIAL gag.....keep it that way........dont release stuff like that to other people.

any mappack should NOT be included with the bot itself.....rather.....as an extra download on the same site.......

the mappack is a great idea......and with Austins installer even better and with yours and my waypoints even better.

now......afaik......most bot players are 56k peeps or just cheater-haters like me. getting together, say...20 of the best maps, would be such a huge download man, cuz the best looking maps are full of custom shit and are usually between 5 and 10 MB each. take the average 6.5MB map file and multiply that by 20.
130 MB......i dont think PMB will even download such a file on purpose, even if it was a good thing, with his fabulous 56k connection. a 56k guy will complain about a 1MB download.

next problem is which maps.....and this is actually a discussion that deserves its own thread rather than spamming up this podbot fix thread......hehe :)...35 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terran

03-04-2004 16:57

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

My little wishlist for podbot2.6mm:

move the intire folder structure into the addons folder. This would help people setting up the bot as any other metamod plugin. IMHO all bots that support metamod should do this.

Pierre-Marie Baty

03-04-2004 17:17

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

@huntercc: bug located and fixed.

@T Wrecks: you specify an angle just like before, but this time both the horizontal and vertical angles are taken in account. This way if your camp waypoint is down a slope you can make the bot watch out for the top of the slope (or any other height you want).

@Terran: I hear you. It's done.

@all the waypointers: about this door issue again, guys... when you waypoint through a door, do you set the waypoint radius to zero ?

There will be another release once I have a sufficient feedback on this one. BTW whenever someone else who is serious enough wants to take over the project and continue to make it grow better and better, I will gladly refurbish it away to him since I've already my own bot to grow.

Ammar

03-04-2004 18:15

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

One little sugesstion might be to make the bots switch to knife and then back to the weapon when needed, this is usefull on some maps such as aztec. I heard that you are not going to alter the bot in any way, just fix the bigs, but does this affect how the bot reacts, i dont think so, Its just a little suggestion u might want to consider. Btw great job!

SoUlFaThEr

03-04-2004 20:15

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

i make all waypoints 0 radius if a bot must navigate through a doorway.......on both sides of course.....and also make sure he must go exactly STRAIGHT through it.....no wierd angles.....

but the thing is.......on Austins server.....theres 28 bots on ONE team against maximum 4 humans........so the croud at a doorway near a spawn is just gonna be hell no matter if its 0 radius or not :) this si why he makes those rotating door to sliding doors...

ok BOT feedback:

i have been watching bots at these new camp spots of mine.......only sometimes do they actually look where was pointed......and they actually look up or downwards if it was set like this so it does work.......

another thing i notice as a bot navigates around.....he may be seriously paying attention to a specific waypoint.......walk past it......and turn around to still be looking at it.....this is surely the danger code......but it looks funny when a bot runs backwards into the open area of cs_assault inside the building on the bottom!

they are still doing strange things at ladders.....and now when a bot reaches the top of a ladder......he is sort of jumping up and off to the left......and while in the air.....swinging back around to land on the top normal waypoint........this looks sort of funny and opften causes the bot to fall off......again im seeing this in cs_assault......

>BKA< T Wrecks

03-04-2004 21:35

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

@ SoUlFaThEr:

1. I second your opinion about those hacked maps. However, I thought it might be nice to offer some maps that have had bot-incompatible things removed. Not to make them playable with 28 bots, only to make them bot-compatible at all.

2. I didn't want to include the maps in the bot itself, no way! There should be a) the bot + official WPs, b) some custom WPs (as a pack or individual) and

3. I thought of the maps not as a pack, but as a list of individual downloads. A pack is a bad idea, because if you have 50 maps in it, not a single user will like all 50 of them. Never ever! This means that ppl waste d/l bandwidth, and we don't want that. But if we had a list of tested and approved maps, we could even spare all bot friends downloads of maps that look good, but suck with bots.

@ Austin: How much more space do map archives occupy when distributed with the installer, I mean compared to a high-compression ZIP or RAR?

@ PMB: What SF said, door WPs w/ a radius of 0, if it's an actual door. If it's just an open doorway, still 0. If it's wide, 16. And if it's very wide, maybe 32. And no odd angles - btw, I didn't notice any particular problems, at least nothing new...

Thx about the camp WP info, lads! And yes, we should open a new thread about those maps - too many discussions are mixed in this monster-thread already. No need to add even another one...

Austin

03-04-2004 23:51

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

Quote:

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

Yes, they are the perfect thing for installing maps. Even after I wrote this detailed doc on how to install maps,
Http://austinbots.com/doc/HowToInstallCSMaps.doc

some regular players were still totally lost on how to install maps! Those of us who do a lot with computers forget there are people who can barely turn on their computer install a game and get connected. Anything beyond this is a dark void for them. I am not criticizing them, there are a lot of areas where I have little if any expertise or information. I just have to remind my self the "average" end user can sometimes be pretty new to computers and can't do some things that seem extremely "simple" to us.

I haven't found anyone yet who couldn't' figure out how to get these maps installed using this installer, so the main problem of getting user to have custom maps is solved.

The program that creates these installers checks the bsp file to make sure ALL the necessary external custom files are present and it doesn't even make the installer if any file is missing.

BKA I use the Wise installer in zip mode so the installer will be compressed to the same size as a zip. The wise installer has a very low overhead for the exe something like 32K.

Quote:

Originally Posted by >BKA< T Wrecks

should be included as a regular version as well - of course bundled with hq waypoints as well. Take a map like cs_militia2k1 (militia clone, obviously) - some ppl who don't play against so many bots will prefer having those rotating doors in the map simply because they look way more authentic than sliding doors and add atmosphere -

I agree. I already post the unmodified map as an exe installer.

I make another one that has the extra spawn points and the pwf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoUlFaThEr

Mark.......hacked maps are your servers SPECIAL gag.....keep it that way........dont release stuff like that to other people.

any mappack should NOT be included with the bot itself.....rather.....as an extra download on the same site.......

the mappack is a great idea......and with Austins installer even better and with yours and my waypoints even better.

now......afaik......most bot players are 56k peeps or just cheater-haters like me. getting together, say...20 of the best maps, would be such a huge download man, cuz the best looking maps are full of custom shit and are usually between 5 and 10 MB each. take the average 6.5MB map file and multiply that by 20.
130 MB......i dont think PMB will even download such a file on purpose, even if it was a good thing, with his fabulous 56k connection. a 56k guy will complain about a 1MB download.

next problem is which maps.....and this is actually a discussion that deserves its own thread rather than spamming up this podbot fix thread......hehe ...35 pages!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1) SF I don't advertise these hacked maps. I only give them out If someone asks me for them. I am not the only person looking for 32 player maps. It is a common request.

2) Agreed! The bot installer should just be the bot and waypoints for only the standard maps.

3) I don't like map packs. Each map will have it's own installer and "possibly' a pwf.

4) I have started a list and I think we should post a sticky thread in the mapping section to continue this.

I have been testing something that seems to be working really well on my server.
Once again this may be something that is only done there but here is the deal.

I have been experimenting with putting in like 40-50 spawn points on some maps.
The engine cycles through all of these in order, so I have been creating situations where for example on assault 1337, one round 10 or so bots will flood in through the back door. The next round 20 will flood in through the front door.
Another round they drop like rain through the vent/ladder into the hostage room.

Another round a bot will spawn right next to the hostages and start running out with them in the first few seconds!

As a first test it has been wild fun!

I have noticed a few other thinks while hacking maps.
On vip maps TAKE OUT THE VIP SPAWN POINT!
This will cause the engine to cycle through the ct spawns picking on for the vip and this way we can move the ct spawns around to produce more random paths for the vip!

If you take out all buy zones, then every spawn point will have a mini buy zone around it giving us more flexibility in placing spawns!

SoUlFaThEr

04-04-2004 01:21

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

that take outthe vip spawn is something new for my ears.........quite cool :) that would make my own as_slum really interesting !!

about putting in 50 spawns!!!!! thats adding a buttload of ePoly.....does the map lag then?

go console on one of these maps and type
developer 1 and then
r_speeds 1

and look if the ePoly are any bit above 3000...if they are......the map may lag(but only there.....) and many times one of the spawn areas is a bomb spot or hostage holding area.....and if spawns are placed in those numbers.....the timing of the map will change wickedly.....not sure if thats good or bad :)

bots are also ePoly o_O

Pierre-Marie Baty

05-04-2004 05:59

Re: POD-bot back into shape.

LOL, I'm dumb

@SoUlFaThEr: no wonder the camp points don't work! I left a damn n00b bug in the code... instead of doing

if (v_dest == g_vecZero) // test if v_dest equals g_vecZero

I was doing

if (v_dest = g_vecZero) // put the value of g_vecZero into v_dest and test if the operation succeeded

shame on me :D
I've fixed that and I've witnessed the new camp points, they DO work now. Can I have your fixed waypoints for the default maps ? Once I have them I'll make a release. Also if possible you can record a demo of the ladder problem ; maybe I can fix that one too in the same time.

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