Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

If I understand things right, they won't split faces.
However ... you know me ... I could have dreamt that up over time. ;)
Don't know too much about Steam.
Don't you still have valve installed too ?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I dont think textures matter when it comes to splitting of touching brushes. I think it only matter its world or entity.

Even if the buttomface of a crate is nulled the area beneath it will still not be rendered if the crate is a world brush.

You made me think of something though:) What if we turned brushes into entities and textured the backfaces with a @texture.

Since the brush would be an entity, it should not cut up the face it touch. Since it has a @texture there will not be rendered through it though, if you can follow me?

Could be interresting to see what the engine thought about that. I guess it would simply act as a normal entity brush, since the @texture would be discarded as its fully covered by a world brush.


To get gl_wireframe to work you might have to run it in singleplay, run map via consol, turn on sv_cheats or something. I dunno if any of that works, since I dont have Steam.

Sorry for hijacking ya thread Carp:)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I just wanna know what you wanna put @ tex on.
Where do you wanna use them ?
To save on r_speeds somehow ?
Like as walls ?
Cuz I've been theorizing about such things too.
Like using {brushes on one side & @ on the backs.
I wanna use something like that to make a destroyed city block.
Interesting ?
Anybody else have ideas about this ?
Cheers !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I find it weird that the engine would allow the rendering of invisible faces ... ???:(

I mean if you face a cube, you may see 3 faces of it at once, the engine shouldn't even bother about rendering the 3 others in the back unless you change your point of view ?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I have been wondering the same Carp. A year ago I said to myself: "If there just was a texture which could block VIS, then I could make the most amazing stuff". Today I have no idea of why to use it anywhere.

I have some wierd ideas, which probably wont work out. If you hollowed a door and textured the insides with the @ texture, then you would maybe have a door which blocked VIS, when it was closed?

Gingsing Avenger, one of the @ texture experts, used it one place in Industry West. He has some flap doors which you can go through, but not look through. There it is quite usefull with it.


According to the results of the discussions on the collective the engine does actually not render invisble faces.

I still dont know what to belive though. If the engine did not render the 3 other faces of a cube, then there would be a lot of cases, where we dont need the null texture.

One of the guys over at the collective made some experiments. He filled a room with 100 cubes. Then he compiled and checked r_speeds. After that he went into Hammer and textured all invisible faces with null. After a new compile the r_speeds was still similar, when looking from the same angle.

I guess the subject could still need some experimenting.

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

with the @texture are you meaning the aaatrigger?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Ah !
The door idea is good !
It would wok best with sliding doors though, because the edges of the door would have to be fully covered as thick as their pieces.
Say: the door is made up of 6 pieces, all one unit thick.
You would need to ensure the @ surface was completely blocking vis.
Like so:
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/AtDoor.jpg

Make sense ?

p.s. He means tex that begin with @.
Such as @TCblinds from ts_normandin.
They are passable to players & weapons, but nothing on the other side gets rendered. ;)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Every mappers nightmare happened to me today.

I started out the day with this:
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsNO01.jpg

I altered a couple of things ... no big deal, right ?

Compiled ... got this error:

Unable to open maps/ts_normandin_CREDITS.txt for transfer.
Processing maps/ts_normandin_CREDITS.txt.
Then ... the prt file went missing.
At that point I copied & pasted the prt ... & apparently ... a REALLY old version of the map file from another folder.

I compiled again & got this:
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsNO02.jpg

The last 6+ months of work on normandin are lost.
Not very cool.
I found a version of beta 2 at least ... only 3 months lost on that one !
So ... I mapped like shitbusters today & am compiling the rebuilt & retextured & redetailed version of the map.
We'll see how much I got right in a while.
Oh terrible day.

Oh ... terrible day !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

that sucks a lot...

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I know how it feels cos it happens with code too...... I feel sorry for you dude :( really...
if you're really too pissed take a breath... don't take the risk to do another mistake... do something else for a short while, you'll get back to normandin in a few days, and eventually you will find a more recent backup the day you won't be searching for it. That's usually what happens :)

...dunno, how about texturing a cathedral for a change ? :D

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I took a more direct route & rebuilt everything yesterday !
I only missed a few models in the library & a have couple of tex mistakes.
That & my magic doors are gone & I'll have to redo them.
Not bad for a day though !
For some reason though, my r_speeds went up by about 100, almost everywhere.
I didn't null the back faces of anything yet, so that may be the answer.
Perhaps I hadn't turned stuff into func_walls yet in beta 2.
I'll work on that aspect later today.

Still though ... I did really good yesterday !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I have a folder for my bot which I make a copy of every time I wanna change something big, or at least every 2 days workin on it. then I just give it names with increasing numbers at the end ... not the finest way to do this, things like cvs are a lot cooler, but not that easy ... maybe you should consider a similar system, hd space isnt a topic these days I think :D

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

i feel you buddy...

ya PMB has it right man... when i lost all my rmfs etc i took a week off and ive been mappin since :)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I've got it all but finished again.
Compiling as I type.
There were only a few glitches that I could find & fix, so I'm certainly almost done.
Just tweaking the tree, actually. ;)
I will, of course, post pix when it's ready.
:D
Cheers !

p.s. R_speeds went down considerably on the compile where I'd NULLed the back faces of everything touching another surface.
Some where func_walls & others were just world brushes though, so I don't know which one did the magic ! LOL !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Comparison/Contrast:
OLD
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsn01.jpg

NEW
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsn10.jpg

OLD
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsn02.jpg

NEW
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tsn11.jpg

Well ... pretty close, hey ?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

In other news ... the saloon map now looks like this:
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_s01.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_s02.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_s03.jpg

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

bummer man..one thing i learned is back up alot ..i usually do small stuff weekly and full a month...

the maps still look good :) maybe make the tree's a little greener than teal

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Why do I have that strange feeling that I know which cathedral you're alluding to, PMB? ;)

EDIT

Oops, what happened? Did I miss a page or did all you guys post when I was writing? Makes the line above a bit out of context... well, in that case I'll comment the new screenies: 8o
There isn't much more to say, really... great to see you recovered so quickly and came back with a bang! Keep it up!

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Can do !
Compiling now ... on what I hope to be the final build.
We'll see ... shortly.
;)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Carp man, you rock.
I love the night ambience in your bar
Can't wait to jump & dive everywhere with a socom in hand
w00t


*edit* have you tried changing the sky in this map to buildings, such as lmcity or rdm_un ? these skies are from the default TS maps...
give it a try... 8)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I had a city one in there at 1st.
I was gonna change it back, actually ... so ... good reminder.
It was gonna be a saloon at 1st, but it's kind of a goth club now.
The city skyline will look much better, yes.
SO good to know there's another TS nut in the house !!!
Cheers !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

how in the world does something like that happen carp...i mean in the first place(the tex problem)?

that totally sucks man Carp

lets all pitch in for some dope for Carp for having the energy to redo it all....thats great stuff!

yer making me nervous tho......i never back up anything.....and never lost anything like that either.

and please go more in depth about that @ texture and its uses cuz ive never even heard of that one....open a new thread for it informing the public about it.
or Zacker too. i dont like missing out on good shit and others may like this info too

Thanks duder.....that map is looking no less than awesome(wheres the menus and ashtrays hehehe)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Well ... 1st ... I was an idiot & overwrote my latest build with my earliest build.
The tex are missing because I've since removed them from my wad for sucking so bad.
I redid them & gave them new names for the newer version of the map.
The old map still wanted the ugly tex though.

Regarding the @ textures.
@ tex are simply tex that block vis, but are passable to players.
So ... you put up some @drapes in the window & vis can't see through.
You'll still be able to crawl through it though, cuz the brush won't block you.
It's an invaluable tool if you've gone mad with details in an area & need to drop the r_speeds, without compromising one of your many routes. i.e. windows ... mostly
I used them as blinds in ts_normandin to block the lower 4 windows in the courtyard.
R_speeds dropped by over 100 for each one I used.
Which is a good thing ... cuz now it's actually playable. ;)

I have discovered something else though ...
@tex cannot be tied to a func_wall entity.
Which, more than likely, means they cannot be used in doors either.
Sad ... but ... oh well.
It was worth trying out.
Cheers !

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

thats dang interesting! who found this out?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I saw it on a website years ago, but I couldn't tell ya whos it was, sadly.
Just never used it before Normandin, that's all.

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

i suppose im pretty blind and am not paying attention to "the big boys"

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Here's ts_normandin in it's present condition:
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_normandin01.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_normandin02.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_normandin03.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_normandin04.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/ts_normandin05.jpg

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Somehow I'm not fond of these leaves as they are now... they look way too bright IMO
Just tuning down the luminosity should do the trick...

Already tried putting a wooden floor in the library ?
Or tiles... they would fit better I think.

The rest looks VERY convincing, it looks like a real school (oh wait, maybe it is ?)

You should do something with the rocky ground in the outdoors... perhaps just changing the texture x/y ratio would be enough. So far it looks "axial", I mean you can almost see square lines in the ground as if all the little rocks were all lined up.

You miss a restaurant... or a self-service :)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

I did try wooden floors in the librart, but it looked really odd.
So, I settled on wooden highlights on the stairs, etc.
Cheers for that.
The stone sidewalk ... maybe cobblestones ... I'll try that today, but 1st I'll have to make the tex.
We'll see.
It's going beta right away ... you want a link when I'm ready ?
Well ... I did some new leaves & put down some cobblestones.
We'll see how it goes in a while.

Dayam, I sure sit here a lot waiting for compiles.
I'm really afraid of how long it might take with HL2, for instance.
There's got to be a better way.
(Oh man ... I wish I had a starships computer to work for me.)
:D

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

A link ?
Yeah. Haha! Time to frag some bots 8D

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

i hate the compile waiting to :(
this damn jump map is running close to an hour for a compile....thats 20 minutes longer than any other map ive made so far.....

i think i agree with the leaves thing PMB said

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

test version is ready
check your PM box PMB
heh ... that sounds funny ;)

http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/newtree02.jpg

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Can I get it to? Lol

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

A lil feedback, Carp ? here goes. *ahem* :)

Whoa.

First off, let me congratulate you because this map is of superb quality. In all aspects. There are not many things to say. And the most of what I have to say deals about so ridiculous details that I'm almost hesitating to point them out.

Let's go'n have the usual screenshot tour, now:

http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0000.png
This is the ONLY tidbit of a quarter of the half of a texture problem that I could find in the entire map after nearly 1 hour wandering everywhere! And even, it's not really a texture problem since it rather looks like a lighting issue. I'm talking here about the rail but also the wall in the back, which shades in different tones, giving a weird look. I'm not sure what you can do about it if it's just the way the map is compiled. Everything elsewhere, everywhere, is PERFECT, up to the classrooms being numbered in the right order and according to their floor. Ku-dos!

One detail though:
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0004.png
I'm willing to give 100 bucks to the guy who tells me he's able to deploy the same ladder in real life. Think about it : once it's folded, the ladder is taller than the ceiling :D

Now about the eventual changes to the layout, well:
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0001.png
if I understand right, this is the entrance yard to the school ? I'm thinking it would be problematic for pupils and visitors to enter and leave the school when other pupils are having a basketball match. I don't see them crossing the field. A good architect would have put at least a sidewalk around it, in the same tones (grass + tiles) as the central yard. Just enlarging the yard and make a sidewalk with benches and eventually a few potted plants in the corners would be more appealing and would feel more logical to visitors.
Another thing here, about the gameplay: when you enter this yard, there is ONLY one way out (i.e, the door). This is something to avoid at all costs in a deathmatch map (and in any sort of map in general anyway). You can be sure elseway that nobody will ever put a foot there. Ensure all places have at least 2 ways in/out. You could here, for example, make a little door in a corner leading to an administrative office or something, which itself would lead directly into one of the corridors of the first floor of the school.
Another thing: what's this rotty wooden door ? Is that a modern school's entrance door ? No way dude, change me that please :D It rather looks like a haunted manor's door as is. Why not make a large automatic sliding door in transparent plexiglas like those there are in supermarkets and public buildings in general ? And for the main entrance from the street, a bright sas (with the door to the street unopenable of course) would be a nice addition. You must have already seen one of these stupid $2 movies for teenagers that take place in californian schools. Just imitate :)

http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0003.png
ROFLMAO! Intoxicated, eh ? :D
but hell yeah, that chick is well worth such an obsession :D
That corridor is really dark though. It's a very good thing as is but what is not is that you often bump into short obstacles such as benches or potted plants (hm, can't remember if there were potted plants there.... but there were obstacles anyway).

http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0002.png
There's something that doesn't fit here... I think it's the font. It's not the same font as the classroom numbers, am I right ? Try taking a more "official" font such as those you see on public signs.
Aaah, the library. I DO HAVE something important to say about this library dude. NOBODY ever will get his feet in it if it stays as is. Because it's on an end of the building, and there are only 2 ways to get there: one from each side of the first floor. Not only you can't open the door to the yard, but you can't even SEE outside. This library has strictly no tactical interest, which is a shame since it's the most appealing part of the map. What's the point of climbing the stairs and get to the upper floor ? Nothing to ambush there, nothing to do but to collect 2 miserable powerups. That's not where the action happens. By all means, by all means, make the door to the yard opens, and make the 2 windows breakable, arrange them, widen them so that a sniper could at least climb up the shelves on the upper floor and snipe outside. Or do something, but make people come and go in your library.

The middle yard, on the other hand...
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0005.png
...is where most or all the action takes place. If there are less than 16 players in your map, people get lonely very fast searching for each other and fatally meet in the middle yard. But from 24 to 32 players, it's an AWESOME map! Only constant though: the middle yard is THE attraction point. So by all means too, to even the dispersion of players through the whole map, make the doors open !!! Currently there are 6 ways to enter this yard (the 6 breakable windows) and only 2 to leave it (the 2 windows from the first floor). And that's where the problem is. 4 are one-way, 2 are bidirectional. That's where all the action will take place : through these windows. So, by deduction, first thing to do: make these damn curtains drawable :) I can't bear getting headshot by bots through these curtains. Make them work just like the curtains in cs_747. Next thing to do in this yard, most important :
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0012.png
make EXITS. Make the door to the library OPEN, make two other doors by the other end open too. That will perfectly even the ins and outs. People will be able to LEAVE the yard without crossing that lethal window-to-window killer range.

Anyway, congratulations on the new leaves...
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0011.png
...and the height at which you put the bushes. That's simply perfect. Oh, by the way, did you know ?
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0014.png
Your tree is climbable. Well, it is, but only if you pick up the matrix-jump powerup. Since there are such powerups here and there in the map it's quite common to find one in a round. It's a perfect sniping spot! and as you can see...
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0015.png
... it can cover the 2 sides of the yard. The only problem, is that climbing up there requires a lot of practice, and dayam, it's TOUGH! You need to climb one or the other pots on the side where the bushes are, take a run and jump very accurately. Even the landing is difficult : you can easily fall down the other side. That would be sweet if people could climb into that tree easily. That would make the yard an even more dangerous place!

...oh yea, I was talking about the curtains...
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0013.png
that would not be a bad idea to make them thinner IMO -or drawable *hint* *hint* ;) Here's what you get elseway when you want to place yourself near the edge of a window.

Now on the corridors.
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0010.png
The obstacles provide good coverage, but not exceptional, which is a quality IMO. What is problematic though, is that if you're at one end of the corridor, like here
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0009.png
...and an enemy points his nose at the other end, there's nothing you can do to evade him. You must fight and win, or die. It is appreciable when people are low in health to find ways to escape/flee from a firefight. Take 3DMike's maps: in every corridor, there are rooms on the side with at least 2 doors. When you meet an enemy, and your health is low, nothing is lost yet: you can still manage to evade him. Like here for example :
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0008.png
why not make a classroom behind these two doors ? Alright, maybe it's the many tables which scare you for the r_speeds, but you can still make a biology room for example, with long ceramic desks. It's much doable.

Ah well, in the end, I'm probably nitpicking because it's a damn enjoyable map already.
http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0006.png
It just makes me uncomfortable to feel such a level of perfection, to feel that you're so close to a masterpiece, damn, I *had* to tell you all this :D

http://racc.bots-united.com/ts_normandin0007.png
Once finished, ts_normandin will rock everything that's rockable, that's for certain.

An AMAZING map.

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Thank you SO much man !
That's the best help I've gotten yet, by FAR !

Here's what's already happened in the map:
-I've added glass top dividers to the library, as well as the book beeper things.
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tour01.jpg

-The courtyard got some benches & structural canopies over the doors.
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tour02.jpg

-The Hall Of Mirrors Effect in the blinds has been dealt with now too.

Now, on to what you've mentioned:

- Stairwell shading is odd, but not awful. I might just live with it.
What was the problem with the railing tex/ lighting ?
I can't tell cuz the pic is really dark.

-I win the $100.oo !!!
All I need to do is slide the ladder up, through a ceiling tile ! I win !

-I absolutely LOVE the idea for the b-ball court !
The sidewalk around it & grass & trees are definately going to be added.
Also the door idea is brilliant !
It'll lead through a sports room/lock-up and back into the main hall.
I may add a fire escape there as well.

-I'll have to revamp the area by the dark pictures, to include a front foyer, with a set of front doors, etc.
Also very good inspiration.
If that happens, I may be able to open up the doors to the courtyard on that side.

-The library may get access through the back corners of the top floor, leading to the second floor hallways.
R_speeds are pushing it in there already, so we'll see.
Still a great idea though.

-R_speeds are the reason I cannot open the door or the windows in there though & also why the blinds cannot be made drawable.

-Classrooms may be pushing it, in fact, adding anything more at this point may be pushing it.
I'm already using almost every trick I've ever read about to make this map run after each compile ! ;)
It's HUGE ! 16Mb already !

Thanks again, man !
If anyone needs me ... I'll probably be mapping. :D
Cheers !

p.s. Doors ARE ugly ... will change.

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Wow I haven't even played it yet but from the pictures it looks like a msterpeice!!! Thats what makes a map really great, time and revisions!!! I really like your style carp what are some of your completed maps i would like to get play some?

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

7 months & counting. ;)

There are 2 ts maps here for DL.
Powerslave & Highwire.
I like the sow highwire version much better than the ts one, but ... oh well.
(That was then ...)
http://users.accesscomm.ca/endo/index.html


Much improved, but not yet done, either:
http://users.accesscomm.ca/endo/b-ball01.jpg

*EDIT*
I'm now doing a compile, in which this area leads to a new front entance, via a small, private road.
We'll see how/if this works out ... tomorrow.
Good freakin' night !
;)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Really great improvements Carp. 16 megs? Thats wild!

Nice reply PMB:)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

quality !!

PMB = Reality checker :)

Re: What's Carp Got Cooking ?
 

Getting better:

http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tour03.jpg
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/tour04.jpg