unfinished map

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Does someone want to finish a map I started some time ago ? I have strictly no time for it :(

I'd love to see this map finished, with appealing textures and all.

It's a good map anyway. ;)

[stefanhendriks]

its a freaking cathedral? wow, that looks l33t pmb! (seen the thumbnail only)..

[Bert]

You should've uploaded it as a .map, not all of us use WC/Hammer :p

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

here you are (added attachment) ;)

[PaInTbaLLa18]

how do u make maps

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

To make maps, you use a 3D design program that is configured for Half-Life and the mod you want to make maps for. The most known of them is Hammer Editor (also known as WorldCraft).

There are many mapping tutorials available on the net to get you started quickly. Use your favourite search engine and type in "HL mapping tutorial" or something like that.

[GreenMan]

wow! very nice PMB, nice to see your skills arent just focused on coding hehe :P

i'd be very happy to finish this off for you, i was thinking of a CS_Assault style map where the CTs have to break in to the cathedral, what do you think?

im currently getting the Hammer editor ship-shape then ill texture the thing :) hope you like it

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

sure, do whatever you want with it :)

Actually this was my first map and I'm afraid the r_speeds may be a bit high... perhaps you'll need to simplify brushes and/or use cleverly sprites and func_walls, dunno...

[Nova]

sure, do whatever you want with it :)

Actually this was my first map and I'm afraid the r_speeds may be a bit high... perhaps you'll need to simplify brushes and/or use cleverly sprites and func_walls, dunno...
Please, post this map when its finished, ok ?

Nova

[stefanhendriks]

yes, i am also eagerly awaiting the finished product. I really like the idea already of this map, can't wait for a finished playable map.

[Fiber_Optic]

Blood in a church... should be interesting... :D

[GreenMan]

sorry im taking so long guys, ill try and get this thing textured ASAP, ive just got 2 exams this week and then ill finish the texturing and upload just the cathedral on its own (fully textured) so you can all see what PMB has made, its very cool :)

ill make the map a fully playable CS map sometime soon in the future

[Fiber_Optic]

Yeah no problem... work! You'll finish it asap.

[GreenMan]

ok, ive tidied up the map a bit, removed some dodgy brushes that were stopping the map from compiling (two wooden beams in the attic-like bit had vertex errors), but for some reason the map causes CS to crash when i try to run it, in normal CS it quits to the desktop and with Steam-CS it performs an illegal operation, and i have no idea why

pierre, may i ask which WAD you used to texture it? it wasnt any of the original CS wads and im curious to see how you textured the cathedral, i had to texture the thing from scratch cos all the walls were white for me

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I used the big Half-Life's HL.wad only... but you should really be able to do a better job in texturing it from scratch, because the textures in the HL.wad prolly *suck*, really :)

[How.Dare.You]

Great looking map.

I have the same problems when compiling the map, cs crashing, even though it has no error's. Very strange indeed. I'll keep working on it.............watch this space.

[GreenMan]

lol, i thought i had halflife.wad already loaded into hammer *stoopid* :P

How.Dare.You, what are you using to compile the map? im using ZHLT Compile GUI v6 because the bog standard Hammer compiler cant handle the number of WADs ive included in the map, ive used textures from pretty much every WAD in the cstrike directory :P

i wonder if you get the problem using the same compiler

[How.Dare.You]

I use ZHLT Compile GUI v9, although I have tried the original tools supplied with VHE and still get the same problem with crashing.

We might have to rip the map apart to find what's causing the problem >:(

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

lol, I'm sorry guys, it's my first map, I guess I would have done better compiling it step after step to ensure everything worked okay instead of doing all the complicated stuff first :D

What if you selected all the brushes and did a copy and paste in a new map ?

Good luck anyways :)

[How.Dare.You]

hehe, I like a challange.

*edit*

"Error: Exceeded MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES"

Get the CLIPNODES down and we've cracked it

[GreenMan]

hehe, dont apologise PMB, for a first map its absolutely AMAZING, you should see my first ever map (it was for quake, it was a room with double barrelled shotgun, two grunts and a dog half stuck in the floor lol)

im very impressed with the map overall, it looks purdy and for a first timer your use of vertex editing was really great, the map only had 2 problematic brushes which i have removed, i usually completely cock everything up when i use vertex editing and ive been mapping for years hehe :P

with regards to MAX_MAP_CLIPNODES, if anyone wants to know what that is, i believe it means that there is too much open space. in order to crack down on this i intend to put clipping brushes in nooks and crannies that players cant fit into anyway (correct me if im wrong How.Dare.You :)) with any luck it wont affect gameplay at all

fingers crossed, hopefully How.Dare.You and myself will get PMB's map running smoothly

PS: how come the ZHLT compiler didnt pick this problem up? i get no error at all

[How.Dare.You]

The error was reported in my compile log at the top and used about 2 lines of text. It was real easy to miss (and i did several times :|).

so far i have the entire outside (apart from around the top of the building) and i'm still getting the MAX_CLIPNODES. Time to start inside the building :|

[How.Dare.You]

I HAVE THE MAP RUNNING!!!!!! wOOOt!!

The main room need cutting down in size as you can see the skybox (if you stand at one end of the map and look at the other end) through the walls. Or put dividing walls in their and make several smaller rooms, however this will spoil the look of the cathedral.

Unfortunatly I can only get 6.7fps. The epoly count is 0, the wpoly count is 6845. This is well above the maximum wpoly count. It's gonna be real hard (almost impossable) to get the wpoly count down.

Although I could be wrong and GreenMan can sort it.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I was thinking... would it help if some of the more complex brushes were made separately into .mdl files ?

[GreenMan]

i too have the map running, its looking nice so far, though How.Dare.You is right, the map IS very complex and it may not be playable online, im currently hitting 6fps, same as How.Dare.You

however, do not despair, because firstly im running it at full brightness (no radiosity because there arent any lights in the map yet! :P), running the map with radiosity would improve the framerate VASTLY, and also i havent VISed the map because it takes too long to compile (that should hopefully cut down the r_speeds considerably), so not all is lost yet!

by the way, you can increase the max viewable distance by going to map -> map properties and altering the "max viewable distance" setting (its default is 4097 or something like that, i decided to double it which works great)

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

w00t 8D screenshotz guyz 8D screenshots plz 8D

[stefanhendriks]

l33t! i want to see some screenies too! :D

[GreenMan]

mapping is a funny old business, for some reason the "max_clip_nodes" error (which i had previously fixed) has magically come back and now it wont go away :(

im trying to get this thing sorted but it refuses to work :P ill get it done in the end, some day hehe

ah well, keep plugging, thats the key!

[How.Dare.You]

by the way, you can increase the max viewable distance by going to map -> map properties and altering the "max viewable distance" setting (its default is 4097 or something like that, i decided to double it which works great)I live to learn something new everyday :) I didn't know about this feature lol

mapping is a funny old business, for some reason the "max_clip_nodes" error (which i had previously fixed) has magically come back and now it wont go away :(
Try turning the walls into func_wall, this helped me cut the MAX_CLIPNODES problem out.

[botmeister]

Hey how.dare.you old man :) Let these guys know about mean_underground, that was a cool map. Got any new ones going?

[How.Dare.You]

Helllllo Mr Meister, me old mucka.

I have a new 1 in the pipe-line ;) but it's a long way off being finished. mean_underground needs a revamp coz it's a little dark.

[SoUlFaThEr]

im seeing this project again now :)

Its, as i said to PMB long ago, just too much for this engine.

its awesome as a show map......but its too open with too many brushes for the engine to handle "nicely".

I) would also be interested in seeing this masterpiece finished......and somehow i wish you had asked me to do it :) i remember that there were many spots where 2 or 3 brushes could have been built as one and so on and so forth :)

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

oho someone to dig this thread from its grave :D

well SF, since you "wish I had", then now I ask you, officially, to do something potable with it.

Don't believe it's too much for this engine : we just don't run HL/CS on the same computers nowadays than in 1998 when it was out :)

And also I have a lotta ideas to cut down the brushes count. With an extensive usage of sprites and transparent textures, I'm sure I would make something enjoyable if days lasted 48 hours instead of 24.

For example, I could replace all the windows with sprites ; idem for all the barriers on the upper floor.
I could also create custom models and replace brushes with them: the arches, the pillars, or the wood under the roof. The problem is only the interior of the cathedral anyway.

[SoUlFaThEr]

sounds interesting with the models and sprites but ill say its worse having high r_speeds thatare caused by extensive amounts of Epoly.....which is what sprites/models/and Alpha textures.

hmmmm

[the Carpenter]

Hello all.
I'm working on a theory regarding such things.
I think this may be possible soon.
Lots of work to do yet though, as I have only theory to work on, at this point.
It's a good idea that I hope will work out for all of our sake.
Cheers !

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

hey, is that THE great white north carpenter from nukebox ? :)

Long time no see, man it's cool to have you here =) That will put some animation in this mapping forum... welcome Carp, make yourself at home :)

[the Carpenter]

Cheers !
Can do !
p.s. It's true ... I am a chatty, little bitch !
8D

[SoUlFaThEr]

YAY my buddys back

SORRY about the IRC thing just now man, i got totally sidetracked

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

so Carp, do you think you could turn this sort of cathedral into a playable TS map ? :)

everybody keeps telling me to give up, that it can't be playable... and to tell the truth I'm a total moron at mapping (just look at the way I use the entities, the only ones I use right are func_walls), not counting that I've no time to finish it anymore...

If you think your "theory" can apply here, feel free to use this beginning of a map as a sandbox !

[the Carpenter]

I have a map idea of my own that I will test out my theories on first, but after that I might give it a go.
I've DLed the files for now.
Hopefully I ain't just blowin' smoke ! lol
I have pretense, to say that I have improved upon design in the past.
Here's a photo of a "texture job" that I took on.
(I took the liberty of building something more decent for the fellow ... to match the tex, let's say.)
Kind of a burn job, as I've never heard back from the fellow about his map.
(Other than requesting I make him an X-Wing too. lol !)
http://www.accesscomm.ca/users/endo/showroom.jpg
8)

[SoUlFaThEr]

OMG i think ive this pic before no?

how big is that......i have an idea for its use.......and you may do it.........i will inform you on what im talking about when im done with my first CLIMB map
no shooting in these :)

[the Carpenter]

You can stand inside it.
I have a model with an open top, as well, for jumping into.
However, the interior is far from fuctional.
You can get inside though. ;)

[How.Dare.You]

Just reviving this thread PMB coz I ain't given up on this damn map yet (IT WILL NOT BEAT ME!) :|

I have rebuilt the entire end of the cathedral. There is also a full second floor to run about on. The great looking ceiling has had to be changed though (to many brushes) the attic now has a flat floor.

I'll add screenies once i've finished texturing it.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I'm eager to see that :P

[How.Dare.You]

Once i have it tested. I'll zip you the bsp and wad file to have a look for yourself PMB

On a side note:

Is there a texture GOD in these forums that can create some unique textures to go with such a unique map.

I need a full range of textures from roof tiles down to the outside floor. They also need to look old (I mean 15th centuary old...:|).

Please email payback@mean-mf.com if you think you can help.

Thanks

[SoUlFaThEr]

go to hl2 mapping to see what i did to it in the source mod im working on HDY....just for curiosity

this is now the second verswion of the cathedral map ive made off of his original....but this one for source is actually TOTALLY rebuilt...the one i made for 1.6 was mostly rebuilt....i kept a few walls adn the basic shape

[How.Dare.You]

Here's a few snapshots to keep you going PMB.

http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/groundfloor1.jpg
http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/groundfloor2.jpg
http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/secondfloor.jpg
http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/attic1.jpg
http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/outside.jpg
http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/images/roof.jpg

let me know what you think.

r_speeds are much better although still a little high (MAX 1400 in 1 spot on the map) the rest of the map runs at around 900. I think this will work as we have advanced in graphic technology (sorry if anyone is still running a 32MB graphic card :P)

I need to make it slightly lighter and put some furnishings in there. Then comes the test with bots to see how many my comp can safely run.

PMB email me at payback@mean-mf.com and i'll send you the .bsp in a reply.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

The second floor looks gorgeous... IF seen with a right gamma level :D man, I was wondering... these pics are dark... lemme raise the gamma... OMG 8o lol

I suppose you have no choice anyway :)

For the exterior, I see you're american. By our cow-filled countries, a cathedral like that stands over any building around :)

Very nice compromise, anyway... if you keep the interior like that and nobody is able to see the flat ceiling, it's superb :)

[How.Dare.You]

For the exterior, I see you're american. By our cow-filled countries, a cathedral like that stands over any building around :)

Very nice compromise, anyway... if you keep the interior like that and nobody is able to see the flat ceiling, it's superb :)

LOL nope I'm English, and that ain't the final sky box =). I was just testing to see what it looked like against a night sky.

I plan to keep the ceiling as dark as I can while adding light into every nook and cranny at ground level. (Sorry your ceiling had to be deleted, it was amazing looking but s*%t for the r_speeds:'()

[How.Dare.You]

A quick update:

The ceiling that was causing high r_speeds is back in the map.
The map has been changed to a de_ map with a bombsite in the attic and the other on the second floor.

I have tested de_goth_cathedral on the [MEAN][MF]Animal House server with 7 other human palyers. Everybody ran a constant 100fps throughout the map (including me with my old Nvidia Geforce 4 Ti4200 64mb graphics card) apart from some dude that's using a real old radeon graphics card, he said he got as low as 30fps on the ground floor because you can see the full length of the map (the map was compiled using extra rad and fast vis, so this may improve even more when i compile with full vis).

Hopefully de_goth_cathedral will be released by the end of tonight.

Tom

[Zacker]

A GF4 Ti4200 is not an old card in HL1 terms. Even older cards should not have any kind of problem with HL1 maps.

-extra on rad has no effect on r_speeds. It only does some oversampling usinga 3*3 array, which makes lightmaps nicer.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

screenshots ? :P

[How.Dare.You]

A GF4 Ti4200 is not an old card in HL1 terms. Even older cards should not have any kind of problem with HL1 maps.

-extra on rad has no effect on r_speeds. It only does some oversampling usinga 3*3 array, which makes lightmaps nicer.

A, This isn't a normal hl1 map, this map needs a solid engine to run on that can do it justice. I only attempted to make this map playable because PMB put a lot of effort into making the original. If i can play on a Canadian server with a 178 ping and not lag, then I deem this map fit enough to play on.

B, I never said -extra rad would lower r_speeds, I said running full vis should. :P

I can do a little better than screenshots PMB

de_goth_cathedral.rar (http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/de_goth_cathedral.rar)
de_goth_cathedral.exe (http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/de_goth_cathedral.exe)

Made by: [MEAN][MF]PayBack]*= (ME)

Original concept by: Pierre-Marie Baty

Please give real feedback,

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

well done! the second floor DOES look nice, though I'd put more transparency to the stained glass so that we can see more the exterior through them, because it definitely looks best when all the glasses have been shot :D

Was it not possible to keep the embossed structure of the floor under the roof ? because that's really how it is in cathedrals...

I would have kept all the holes in the wall leading to the outside on that floor too, in my opinion that would provide much more ways to sneak in and out of the place.

I don't like the color for the barriers (red) 9_9 I know, that was the very texture I used, but I don't like it anyway :D

I would have put the entrance at the other side of the cathedral... no cathedrals have entrance by that side AFAIK. And made 3 doors in fact, double doors to be precise. That entrance door needs more detail too IMO.

I think you should put another texture for the wall surrounding the cathedral. And not that scale, but smaller...

The bell sound is awesome :)

[How.Dare.You]

The map is right on the limit, if I put a texture on Both sides of the ceiling/floor it would make the map unplayable because the engine would render both faces increasing r_speeds. I also got rid of the holes because I needed to cut down the number of brushes used.
I placed the door on that side of the cathedral because I didn't want the terrorists to be able to get straight up the staircases and be on the bombsite before the CT's could get down to cover it.

I can change the size of the outer wall and re-texture it + make the windows more transparent, and I can also change the barriers and ladders to a better texture.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I placed the door on that side of the cathedral because I didn't want the terrorists to be able to get straight up the staircases and be on the bombsite before the CT's could get down to cover it.Well turn the staircases the other side, then :D

[How.Dare.You]

Update:

de_goth_cathedral.rar (http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/de_goth_cathedral.rar)
de_goth_cathedral.exe (http://www.apss50.dsl.pipex.com/de_goth_cathedral.exe)

The upper ceiling has had to go, it was causing 2000+ r_speeds because of the complex brushes.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

oh :(

that halves my interest already...

[How.Dare.You]

Sorry PMB, I loved the ceiling too, but to make it a playable map I had to sacrifice brushes, and that was the most complex..... :(