Official documentation

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Now that many things have changed I think it would be a good idea that someone rewrites and/or updates the official documentation of your bot :)

Especially the waypoint editing tutorial by Count Floyd, the new server commands, and the installation/removal procedures. And why not write an official FAQ and include it in your future releases ?

That would certainly cut down the number of simple questions. :)

[Huntkillaz]

i wouldn't mind helping out...i think i mentioned this earlier...

but i think CF's docs have a copyright on em so u'll have to ask Cf n botman if u can change em?

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

huh ? o_O it's not commercial stuff, I don't see what's wrong in changing html files to make them up to date ?

[Huntkillaz]

k.. well i'll start modifying it but it wont be part of the bot till we know for sure on legality

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Well, it's no problem to start an entirely new file, isn't it?
Besides, I am also writing a documentation now the new release is out. I suggest we agree on a way of coordinating our efforts (Filebase, Mail?).
It doesn't hurt to have two ppl writing on the documentation; in the worst case we have two text passages for one section of the documentation. In that case, we could analyze what's good or bad in each of the versions and agree on a version that combines the advantages of both...

Are there any sections you have already finished? I just finished an introduction for newbies and for PODBot 2.5 waypointers.

Would it be ok if you did the commands and menu functions (maybe plus the different waypoint types, if you want), and I skip the middle part and contribute an updated version of the "frequent errors" part?

[Onno Kreuzinger]

well there are different doc licenses, but since it's the doc to an GNU bot, you can savely assume that it's covered under the gnu as well. (the docs are derived from the code, thus if the code is gnu the docs are too)
Besides that i doubt that botman ot CF will object updating documentations after adding new features...

[Huntkillaz]

Well, it's no problem to start an entirely new file, isn't it?
Besides, I am also writing a documentation now the new release is out. I suggest we agree on a way of coordinating our efforts (Filebase, Mail?).
It doesn't hurt to have two ppl writing on the documentation; in the worst case we have two text passages for one section of the documentation. In that case, we could analyze what's good or bad in each of the versions and agree on a version that combines the advantages of both...

Are there any sections you have already finished? I just finished an introduction for newbies and for PODBot 2.5 waypointers.

Would it be ok if you did the commands and menu functions (maybe plus the different waypoint types, if you want), and I skip the middle part and contribute an updated version of the "frequent errors" part?


nope haven't started yet....yeah i could do the menu \commands\wp...

anyways we could update and change stuff as we go due to the frequent realeases....

i probably won't have anything to submitt till next week...(got a damn test to study for :()

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Ok, no need to rush it. If I get some stuff ready before next week, I'll just mail / PM it to you so you can have a look at it and comment on it. Besides, if we want to make a documentation that's good, all chapters should fit together...
The basic structure I had in mind is actually quite similar to the old document's:

Note for PB 2.5 waypointers (short info o what's new and which chapters ought to be read with priority
What are waypoints? (Explanation for newbies, basic principles)
List of commands / meu items and functions (maybe some hints about binding here? A link to this script thingy? A sample waypoint.cfg to go with the docs? Just thinking...
List of all waypoint types plus some brief explanation (nothing about fine-tuning or difficult cases yet, just basic functionality)
A list of all connection types (what connections exist and how to add / del them)
Common mistakes / things to avoid

Very similar to the original doc indeed. This first doc would teach ppl to use the WP editor, but will focus more or less on the technical point of view, with just some very general hints and strategies.
I was always planning to write something about the more complicated tricks (ledges, ladder bug, WPs inside walls, where to place camp WPs, how to balance a map etc.) ... I wonder if it would be a good idea to place links to it in corresponding sections of the basic doc (like "if you wanna know more about ladders, click here)... but maybe it would be too much work to update all those links when a new release comes. Nah, maybe two static docs would be better...
Ok, this is just a first general idea of how I'd do it... I'm always open for different ideas suggestion, of course. I don't want to say "that's the way we're gonna do it", just post some of my thoughts...

[Huntkillaz]

yep cool...html is better :) u can link within docs (maybe have it in frames with left side as main menu and all docs open within these frames...far easier for user)

linking within the two docs is good...and helpful u won't have to update em all on every release just if u add somehting new. that will affect the docs state




newbie is stuff for noobs
the complete basics ..this is a ladder n this is it's waypoint :P u know what i mean

advanced u can have ur tip n tricks
"I was always planning to write something about the more complicated tricks (ledges, ladder bug, WPs inside walls, where to place camp WPs, how to balance a map etc.)"

...i'll add Sf n My Bindscripts with the pack


bot commands will go with the bot stuff not waypoints

how about also releasing em once this is done as a metamod pack ie include metamod so all u have to do is extract it to the addons folder..and place back ur old cfg files (less noobs complaing about it not working wit mm)

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

I see we agree on the division into a basic document (newbie stuff) and an advanced one. The basic one to give an overview what WPs are and how they work in general. The advanced one for people who really want to make waypoints but don't know all those nifty little tricks yet...
I didn't think of a frame structure with a menu, but I like the idea. Tell me more about it... how do you want to structure the stuff, what will be menu points and from where to where do you want people to have the possibility to jump to? Just so that I can get into this idea...

Concerning that release as a metamod pack, that's where Austin's installer comes to mind again. As far as I remember, it worked fine, but there was some discussion about it replacing your cfg's / ini's (if you have MM already installed) or just adding the corresponding lines... I think it was even capable of just adding all necessary lines, but I'm frankly too lazy to look it up right now. Anyway, Austin will certainly be able to wrap this bot up in a nice, self-executable package.
Well, first let's see we get some stuff collected, and as soon as Austin's back, we can take care of that installer business.
Great! :) /me goes back waypointing & writing...

[Huntkillaz]

okay...ive done the basic layout...n version history...

http://forums.bots-united.com/showpost.php?p=13606&postcount=6

what do i do next?



Known Limitations/Bugs/Problems still present:

Bots sometimes fall from high places
Sometimes stuck in other Bots (but should unstuck after less than 5 secs)
Sometimes stuck in corners (see above)
Counter Bots sometimes fail to detect the bomb (but happens to humans also, so what?)
"map" command causes crashes sometimes (use "newmap" instead)
Bots don't know how to reason about Buttons/Lifts (but they use them randomly)
Bots lack advanced teamplay (very basic team-play and affection is present)
Bad covering of Bots sometimes because of no real visibility information yet
Bots are too easy to snipe, see above
No tactical/terrain based pathfinding yet
Bots aren't affected by darkness
Bots don't drive Vehicles
Due to HL Engine Limitations Bots can see through func_illusionaries (e.g. curtains in cs_747, doors in cs_backalley)


any of the above still not work right?

Any of these gonna be done?
Planned for future Releases:

Pathfinding which reasons about teams, tactical positions and terrain
Refining Combat Behaviours and Weapon Choices
Customisation of Personalities incorporated into a Clan-System
Advanced Team Behaviour
Reasoning about Triggered Targets like Doors & Lifts
Automating the waypointing process
Vehicle support (hmm, not really!)

i redo the readme to the new way unless you've done some twrecks?

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

In
Known Limitations/Bugs/Problems still present:remove

"map" command causes crashes sometimes (use "newmap" instead)
Bots don't know how to reason about Buttons/Lifts (but they use them randomly)
Bad covering of Bots sometimes because of no real visibility information yet
No tactical/terrain based pathfinding yet
In
Planned for future Releases:remove

Pathfinding which reasons about teams, tactical positions and terrain
Reasoning about Triggered Targets like Doors & Lifts
although this last one is still improvable, notably the point about lifts.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

Wow, that looks sweet! Of course, we can always tweak the layout a bit - but the design looks good. A simple frame structure, with only one frame changing. And the menu should also be kept simple and small in order to reserve as much space as possible for the really important element - the actual text. No SoUlFaThEr-style GFX, hehe... I guess that wouldn't be appropriate for such a document.
Nice work so far! So if I got you correctly, you want to link the old / original documentation with the 3 menu buttons next to the button, right? And above, we add the new documents. Cool! Keep it up... =)

*edit* ahem... I just remembered that you asked what to do next - I'd suggest a first version of the chapters "waypoint types" and "connection types"? Or maybe explanations on the bot menu and/or the waypointing menu?

[Onno Kreuzinger]

nice to see progress here guy's :) docs are allways good

[SoUlFaThEr]

No SoUlFaThEr-style GFX, hehe... I guess that wouldn't be appropriate for such a document.=)
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa:'( you hate me (ehem)hihi

i am also able to do normal things too........i think......hehe lol man
but it does look.......proper :) good job there HK, nice work

[Huntkillaz]

i've decided to update the old docs...to version 2.6 when cf released em...

so i will split up a few pages such as waypoints n bots to their own buttons...and will get rid of the old tips n tricks (they will be part of advanced wp now)

then after that will go do the new 2.6mm bot's n commands stuff

i can no longer get screenshots in game coz the latest cs update caused my cs to crash every time i load a map >:(. so if u want u could do the waypoint thing.

[sPlOrYgOn]

did you make sure dlls/mp.dll is there?
I can get Podbot and steam working fine together.

[>BKA< T Wrecks]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa:'( you hate me (ehem)hihi

Damn, you got me! :D My secret is revealed... *LOL*

But seriously,
@ that last CS update: Yup, this one was really a bitch. My CS crahes now, too. That's why I still keep a parallel install of CS 1.5. ;)
But yes, try that mp.dll thingy - if you don't have one, have someone send it to you. This was quite a common problem...

[SoUlFaThEr]

i cant play steam anymore either!!!!!!!!! MAN

i also have a 1.5 that i normally waypoint with like T Wrecks.

@Huntkillaz:
tell me what pics you need......and what size they should be.....and i will make them

a regular waypoint, a T Imp wp, a CT Imp wp, a goal wp, a camp wp, a rescue wp, a ladder set up (straight on not on an agle), a nohostage flagged wp, a button flagged wp, my friends wp, show bad connections pic, show good connections pic, etc.

give me a complete list and just tell me the size in pixels needed and i will take care of that for you :)

[Huntkillaz]

http://forums.bots-united.com/showpost.php?p=13686&postcount=16

1. Find your liblist.gam
2. Change the "gamedll" line to "dlls\mp.dll"
3. Start a listen server, then exit. (this resyncs mp.dll because the update deleted it).
4. Replace the gamedll line back to "addons\metamod\dlls\metamod.dll"

do this and it will be fixed :)

@SF
i'm fine now...cs works but if i do need anything i will pm u

[SoUlFaThEr]

roger that......ill check out that funny process there.....

they had to go make it difficult didnt they.......