maintainers/coordinators ?

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

Hi lads,

Just an idea to throw out from an overbooked admin's point of view:

Keeping the whole Bots United site running is eating up all my time. There's a forum, a wiki, a filebase, an IRC server, and a website for each of the hosted bots. Meanwhile I'm still supposed to code my own bot, work for a firm and have a life!

The association is still very young, and I think none of us thought it would grow that fast (thanks to YOU people! =)). But the drawback is that we're not yet really organized.

So why not take on the next move and do what United Admins are doing and appoint persons in charge of maintaining parts of the server ?
We would need maintainers and coordinators for:
- the wiki
- the filebase
- the forum software itself
- the BU source trees
- the IRC channels (nickserv/chanserv/bots/etc)
- the hosted websites
etc, etc,
this would leave us administrators with only the pain to do technical maintenance on the server, with the operating system (this Linux is behaving strangely btw) and all the services and daemons. It's already a big task, anyway.

Just throwing ideas around. Discussion ?

[stefanhendriks]

i think its a good point and its wise to start thinking about it now already. As in my case its not that hard to make the choice, study comes first, then all other stuff. Although i do try to make time for BU (visiting mostly) and moderating.

I thought the filebase now has team members, i wonder what should be done about it at this point? Its ready for usage i believe, so lets use it.

The wiki can be maintained by members, i am able to change things now too ( you could see i updated a lot of pages since i found out). So i think thats also a matter of 'knowing you can maintain it'. Members would be able to manage this by themselves (perhaps this should be made clear).

Websites should be done by their webmasters only. I don't think its wise to let anyone else manage my website since i know wha ti want and i update when i want and when i can. For new websites i think the agora is a good point for discussion and the council should eventually decide if its allowed or not. Setting it up is i think not hard to do (i dont know though as i am not a linux guru) and could be done by Onno if he does not mind?

[@$3.1415rin]

yes stefan, but each one for himself can think about letting some other person admin their respective site ...

maybe we should give some more ppl mod status in here. e.g. thinking about cruft, I think he's still a normal user here, but on the other side he's involved in joebot and realbot coding, etc.

[Onno Kreuzinger]

Well i see some problems on the security side, but else i would like to see more people in charge for the stuff they are allready doing (i propose cruft as an (super)mod, he is allready contributing a lot in terms of linux source code and i would realy like him "on the team").
for the technical stuff:
- the websites are allready dedicated to the one operating the site (allthough some issues with access rights do remain, Cheeseh can delete anr write, but not overwrite ???).
- the wiki should only need major cleanups each quarter or half year
- the filebase mostly shows, that sourcefore is needed to lower the traffic (see JoeBOT in the stats, it 95% of all downloads), else it's fine and working, since no extra userbase or admin management is needed
- the forum is a bit of pain for me, i do not have enough insides, and probably even don't want to get into it too deep
- the BU source tree is a mess, a big mess, but here i can only suggest, that each user makes up the sources he uses and i will try to merge them into one tree, which in turn will be made avail. via cvs (pls comments on this)
- for the strange linux, well have not seen a single system used so intesivly not showing occasional hickups. all trouble since the hoster had restored their kernel was caused by the (perl sic!) Spamfilter, the rest is running smoothly as far i'm concerned
- IRC is not used (hi Frapenoodle, lonesome ranger) widely, i would even consider switching it off and replace it by some simple php/perl "meeting room" that would allow for quick conferences/private sessions.

in general i suggest that we make a fixed way of how to roll out services, and how to put council decissions into place, with timeframe and whom to decide any remaining open or arising issues.

also i would vote for a forum deticated to the server (i tried with the wiki, but a wiki is too usefull to use it only for that kind of stuff, also it has no ACL), preferably a forum only for mods+council+server-admins (security paranoia).

that are my thoughts for now, but i'm in a hurry ATM, i will probaly have more to say the coming days (friday afternoon my stress is over).

cheers

[SoUlFaThEr]

id love to helpyou guys out but im not really familiar with:
- the wiki
- the filebase
- the forum software itself
- the BU source trees
- the IRC channels (nickserv/chanserv/bots/etc)
- the hosted websites

and how those things are adjusted and coded or whatever :(

im still a total n00b on that kind of thing.

maybe with a bit of direction i can handle something of it.

just offerring my presence

[TruB]

same for me..

[@$3.1415rin]

the wiki is mainly running, so the maintenance would be not much of coding anymore I guess. mainly maintenance, creating content ...
same for filebase, forum software. and the sourcetrees and stuff , that's something for those interested in it ...

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I see you didn't get my point...

Do you know how often a week I have to spend one hour or two on this or that PHP file or forum template to fix a bug that this or that user notified me about ? I've just been spending 1 whole day (delaying my real life work - but np) to recode the filebase PHP stuff and fix bugs related to the uploading and deletion of files. And who will reskin the wiki to put it in a more Bots United style ? Also who with a good mastering of orthograph and syntax wants, on a daily basis, to browse through the wiki, organize the stuff better, fix the dead links and the typos ? And we also have two projects: the United Bot and the "game". Who will push things forward and ensures the ball keeps rolling when the interest is dropping ? Who wants to find ways to put more animation in the offtopic forum so as to attract regulars in the optic of building a larger community ? The job of a maintainer/coordinator is just this, to always maintain something into the best shape it can be. We want to provide quality.

If you let things happen by themselves, or if you don't believe a constant effort is needed to keep all this into shape, all that we've done is going to vanish away. Warranted.

Is it just me or... ???:(

[Onno Kreuzinger]

yes, pmb is right, allthough the wiki should be self organizing, i know about the php stuff and the server is in use, so it needs tuning eand tweaking...

the skinning of the wiki could be but must not be or is it political to have it in the CI design ?

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

It's a matter of integration.
We want to be taken seriously. Hence we want to look "pro".
We're not forced to do so but it would be ideal and much appreciable if we did.

[Onno Kreuzinger]

yes, i understand and agree,
i could imagine that we would have to get more ppl. on board to do real work for the organisation it selft.
i consider myself to be one of these, and would like to encourage other members to think about, if they are able to spend some time with BU and joint the staff here :)
it would be ideal if they where simply doing things they like to do and have some skill's in.
I know that there are many out there, and from what i see we could need some help on the wiki with regular overwork, promotion towards users and some skinning. (@PMB why not make a resource kit with images and .css files, even i would then try to do it)
also skilled php/html programmers are allways wanted, as pmb said, there are allways bug to fix in the .php files ;)

cheers out to all BU fans and supporters




It's a matter of integration.
We want to be taken seriously. Hence we want to look "pro".
We're not forced to do so but it would be ideal and much appreciable if we did.

[Squalman]

I would really love to help out with the IRC server, im rather skilled with IRC, bots, etc. And would not mind helping out with the web management. And if you ask me, a step like this will be almost necessary for the continued growth of the community. You should also add groups like "The Mapping Guru" and "The [ai-botname] Groupe" or somthing to add a bit more depth to the sense of community. I dunno, i guess i talk alot?

[Onno Kreuzinger]

yes, good point we had talk about something like a ranking system in the past, i suppose we should reconsider what you proposed, making custom titles.
About the IRC server, that s fine with me, but that is merly advisory, since the council should be reading here, they can perhaps share their thoughts ;)

cheers

[SoUlFaThEr]

cheers on that :)

Guinness anyone?

what do you think i might be of assistance with?
i feel a bit helpless.....in my attempt to help

[botmeister]

Ok, I agree that we need to allocate more human resources to some of these systems. Let's start looking around for more people who can help out.

I'm learning my way around Linux fairly well, will soon be learning some PHP and how to configure Apache web server, etc. As soon as I think I can lend a hand I'll jump in.

I'd like to make one important point, perhaps we are creating more work for ourselves than is neccessary. If we have too many open projects going on at the same time, then we get fragmented and nothing tends to get completed. Perhaps we should focus on only one or two things at a time until completion - by completion I mean "working well enough" because nothing is ever fully complete.

It may also be worthwhile to set up the ability for people to make contributions to the coding of some of the projects. For example, if the filebase code was publicly available, anyone could fix the bugs without having server access, so long as there's someone made responsible for coordinating the updates, etc.

[Squalman]

Yes, i like your idea there botmeister. If the code was available to public then not only would the original thrive, but more bots would arise from it to. (hopefully, different bots designed using the original as a template so to say).

[Onno Kreuzinger]

well for filebase it was a todo for a long time, the software itself is free (paFileDB) and after i managed to get it working on the server, it took 2 evenings to implement extra features and the PMB spend one day on skinning, so all in all a perfect project, it took only a few days to get to done properly. Since then i added two minor features and do not intend to work more on it. But we also need someone organising the stuff from time to time, so that is a point where i could imagine someone like SoUlFaThEr, in case he, or someone else, want to take the job of filebase manager, i could revert that all mod's can fidle around in the database and the manager can decide who will be able to edit the whole database.

for the wiki i can see it's needed to to some work, that's why we need a BU media resource kit to allow easier skinning, and the wiki code is free, it's "phpwiki 1.3.7", i will make a download avail in the filebase (category BU development). Also the wiki can/should be made a separate web-project so that someone can take it over, and work on it like the others who are hosted here, with the difference that it's not his site but the BU wiki he is managing/running.

For the IRC i see that Squalman has offered his help and this looks promissing for me, i will ask Nova on what to do if we want him to do the IRC manager :)

cheers (ATM still in a heck of a hurry)



Ok, I agree that we need to allocate more human resources to some of these systems. Let's start looking around for more people who can help out.

I'm learning my way around Linux fairly well, will soon be learning some PHP and how to configure Apache web server, etc. As soon as I think I can lend a hand I'll jump in.

I'd like to make one important point, perhaps we are creating more work for ourselves than is neccessary. If we have too many open projects going on at the same time, then we get fragmented and nothing tends to get completed. Perhaps we should focus on only one or two things at a time until completion - by completion I mean "working well enough" because nothing is ever fully complete.

It may also be worthwhile to set up the ability for people to make contributions to the coding of some of the projects. For example, if the filebase code was publicly available, anyone could fix the bugs without having server access, so long as there's someone made responsible for coordinating the updates, etc.

[Nova]

Why dont really need someone for the IRC now do we ?

Or have we ever had problems with it ?

Seb

[Onno Kreuzinger]

well for me non-usage is a problem (either switch it of or get it to use) and to get it to use someone must take care, and if someone can do it, why not give it a try ?

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

well for me non-usage is a problem (either switch it of or get it to use) and to get it to use someone must take care, and if someone can do it, why not give it a try ?ditto!

[stefanhendriks]

For IRC, i could be online whenever i turn on the computer (although i am not always there). Just for the sake of getting it used and to see if people actually join in. I would also try to encourage IRC usage on the website/forum. Lets see how that works.

I suggest we do that all, or perhaps have some text at the top of the website that IRC is a place to be.

[SoUlFaThEr]

me and various others have been using that JAVA irc plugin.......i communicate with PMB, T-Wrecks and Austin on our common projects. i think it should stay......and ol squaly can do what he offered. if when we are all online we just get in that channel and simply idle there......people may stay if they visit it......when no one is there.....the guy who checks......wont stay either.

about the filebase manager
ill do it......just inform me how and and and.....ill take that off yer hands...im quite glad to support all of you

[Squalman]

Maby you should link with another small network like EckoNet ( irc.eckonet.co.uk ) to get more interest. IRC is a great thing, if people see that you are running a good network with a good purpose they will come. It may take some work but they will. Also, i know where you can get the service bot codes and the IRC code for the ones Quakenet uses =). Im very interested with all this.

[SoUlFaThEr]

i found a really cool site......
www.flashbuttons.com (http://www.flashbuttons.com/)

gotta look at those menus.....they have a generator and you can generate your own navbar with thier buttons(range from cheeky to really cool looking) .....whoevers doing the site might want to have a look.....seems to be easily configured.....(name for button, link for it, targetname too, and pic colors as well)

[rob]

i can help with flash and php/mysql if needed.

if you want a US file mirror, i have some space i am willing to share.

[Nova]

i can help with flash and php/mysql if needed.

if you want a US file mirror, i have some space i am willing to share.
About linking a network ... i have a friend here that runs a irc network (as network admin) irc.dotneko.net.

He would be interested in linking, plus we have the plus that we wouldnt have to config, maintain it, he would do that, and we wouldnt have to run the services bots, coz theiy already got services linked to their network.

PMB, OK, your opinions. Everyone else also welcome to reply of course :=)

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

PMB, OK, your opinions.Well if you recall well I've already proposed to join a broader IRC network :) At that time this wasn't possible because we were running the BSD IRC daemon which I had to hack to make it support usernames longer than 15 characters, thus making it incompatible with other IRC servers. But since we can now, letzdoit!

[SoUlFaThEr]

Word up!

[Squalman]

About linking a network ... i have a friend here that runs a irc network (as network admin) irc.dotneko.net.

He would be interested in linking, plus we have the plus that we wouldnt have to config, maintain it, he would do that, and we wouldnt have to run the services bots, coz theiy already got services linked to their network.

PMB, OK, your opinions. Everyone else also welcome to reply of course :=)
the irc network i mentioned: My boss (kinda boss) runs it. He runs a hosting company and is very very reliable.

[Nova]

the irc network i mentioned: My boss (kinda boss) runs it. He runs a hosting company and is very very reliable.
Do they run channel / nickname services ?

Nova

[Terran]

@IRC:
I never really understood why you run your own IRC server.

There are that many IRC networks out there with distributed servers, service bots and operators commited to them so why do you want to do this by yourself?
AFAIK there are three channel at the server: #Opers, #bots-united and #realbot.
All of them could easly hosted at a public IRC network, e.g. GameSurge or Quakenet.

@php coding:
I could help with that as I did a lot of php programming for my own website. And I could help obtaining a more consistend look of the wiki and the rest of the BU website.

[Onno Kreuzinger]

Hi rob,

great news, both can be needed here, sooner or later. We have quite some traffic here and at some point it would be a good option to have a mirror handy.
And programming will come up for shure, e.g. the wiki needs skinning and perhaps user authentication integration with the forum user database. if PMB does not object, i can send you the filebase code, i put the user auth. stuff in and PMB did the skinning (using .css).

cheers Onno


i can help with flash and php/mysql if needed.

if you want a US file mirror, i have some space i am willing to share.

[Pierre-Marie Baty]

I don't object but note that I did MORE than doing a skinning with CSS, in fact I've rewritten a lot of stuff. Hence it's not really compatible anymore with the official paFileDB code.

[Onno Kreuzinger]

sorry pmb, i should have pointet out, that this filebase is now realy redesigned to work properly :)
i saw the bugs you fixed und the features added massive re-work done here :)

[Onno Kreuzinger]

Hi Terran, nice to hear you are in php too :)

i will make a download for all interessted in the filebase, just wait util tomorrow :)

@IRC:
I never really understood why you run your own IRC server.

There are that many IRC networks out there with distributed servers, service bots and operators commited to them so why do you want to do this by yourself?
AFAIK there are three channel at the server: #Opers, #bots-united and #realbot.
All of them could easly hosted at a public IRC network, e.g. GameSurge or Quakenet.

@php coding:
I could help with that as I did a lot of php programming for my own website. And I could help obtaining a more consistend look of the wiki and the rest of the BU website.